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Most arguments are about ego, not ideas

wangcong.org

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Re: Most arguments are about ego, not ideas

#261

Post by Tepix »

nilirl wrote: post #226

The author's argument is hilariously wrong because we've been doing something for thousands of years: teaching. And it works, to some degree. And how do teachers teach? They don't start by trying to argue or by trying to prove students wrong. They teach by showing what's fascinating. Taking the time to show people what's fascinating, what's perplexing, where the tension lies, and how it's resolved, is teaching. Argum…

Teachers teach people who don't know the answer yet. So they aren't wrong when you teach them. They will (gladly) accept the knowledge.

Once they know the answer, it gets more difficult to convince them that the answer they know is incorrect.

Re: Most arguments are about ego, not ideas

#262

Post by lyu07282 »

a4isms wrote: post #60

Here's a simple idea: You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. And three interpretations to consider: 0: The default: That person is irrationally attached to being wrong. Best to walk away, argumentation will be futile, and I have a life to lead. 1: Whoa! Sometimes that person is me. 2: If they didn't reason themselves into it, how did they get into it? What if their position rep…

I don't really like that quote, what is a position but an opinion and how do you reason about options? It doesn't really make sense. Its like when liberals say "reality has a liberal bias", its not a very useful thing to say either because it doesn't work that way in practice. Why do you support abortion? Why do you oppose abortion? People will give perfectly reasonable answers to either question.

Re: Most arguments are about ego, not ideas

#263

Post by prmph »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #121
khalic wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing against the existence of an objective reality? Seems a little extreme. There are countless facts, indisputably so. Gravity, death, the fact you wrote me an answer, the fact I'm writing you an answer. These aren't opinions

> Are you arguing against the existence of an objective reality? I’d argue against absolute certainty in any knowledge. That isn’t a statement about reality, just our measure of it.

I can be absolutely certain of my perception and recollection of what my consciousness is experiencing and has experienced.

Note that the truth of this statement does not depend on any certainty about external reality, nor does it depend on certainty that what I perceive or remember is happening or actually happened.

Re: Most arguments are about ego, not ideas

#265

Post by cwnyth »

malfist wrote: post #76
cogman10 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the goal when you start arguing with someone online? Is that goal achievable? For me the goal is twofold. I'm arguing for the people reading the comment chain, not necessarily the commenter's sake. I know it's nearly impossible to convince someone you are arguing with. But also I do try and have an open mind. It's not common that I change my position, but it does happen. For example, I was once a climate ch…

> I'm arguing for the people reading the comment chain, not necessarily the commenter's sake. I'm not sure people are reading comment chains deeply enough to be swayed by two strangers arguing online. All too often these days, folks are just engaging in point scoring type arguments and readers just agree with their tribe. Not saying it doesn't happen, nor that it's a good goal taken with care. But me personally the R…

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Re: Most arguments are about ego, not ideas

#266

Post by b40d-48b2-979e »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #99
inglor_cz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most tiring and depressing developments of 2026 is that nowadays, every single discussion relating to every single blog post out there degenerates into a "This is AI slop" accusation fest. I would be a huge friend of introducing a new rule on the Hacker News that whoever accuses others of using AI and cannot support his accusation by something substantial, gets permabanned.

The blog goes back to 2007. Every single post made prior to ChatGPT has a very strong irreverent sense of humour as well as specific Chinese-English phrases. If you speak to Chinese migrants/colleagues/suppliers you'll recognise it immediately: https://wangcong.org/2009/04/09/got-a-new-job/ https://wangcong.org/2019-03-14-how-to-pretend-to-be-a-linux... https://wangcong.org/2008/12/25/when-i-was-in-portugal/ Then mag…

Curious how he ignores evidence and instead replies to other comments to make ad-hominem attacks.

Re: Most arguments are about ego, not ideas

#267

Post by eduction »

b112 wrote: post #63
thrw045 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read the whole thing. At the end he switches the argument on to himself and says that one should always ask questions, put the ego away and try to get better. He already made the point you made.

And yet, a statement is a position, and this blog is stating his case, which is an argument for truth. So he's still arguing, yet not listening, as it's all one sided now. This isn't actually that unusual, books, newspapers, and more often do one way communication. But as soon as you state a position, you're arguing it.

By your logic no one should ever talk in meetings or write blog posts or comments (like yours) - stating any case about anything constitutes "not listening." Bollocks. A good listener spends a lot of time listening, but can spend some time talking.
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