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Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#91

Post by phire »

eqvinox wrote: post #46

> The defacto industry standard for audio ICs is I²S, an I²C-based bus optimised for audio data. Nit: I²S has nothing to do with I²C. (Most I²S chips also have an I²C interface since I²S only carries raw audio data, no sideband like volume control or clock configuration. But that's a separate interface and can also be SPI rather than I²C. In fact, SPI is more closely related to I²S than I²C is.)

Yeah, it's much closer to SPI.

The reason why they both follow the same naming scheme is that Philips Semiconductor (now NXP) made both.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#92

Post by matrss »

simonmales wrote: post #10

Will this forever exist as a Fedora "remix". Or will we find the support in upstream so I can one day run Debian-based distro? I think the last time I used an RPM-based distro was almost 2 decades ago.

There is an effort by the Bananas Team to get standard Debian working on Apple silicon, and they have installation instructions for how to get it running now with an additional unofficial repository: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1#The_Bana...

I haven't actually tried to install it yet, though.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#93

Post by mschuster91 »

preisschild wrote: post #74
rbits wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? You mean not on Apple hardware? That exists, that's basically every other Linux distro in existence.

Apple could also support open standards like UEFI/dt/acpi. Asahi uses lots of workarounds (including pretending to be MacOS) to be even able to boot the linux kernel. This would projects such as Asahi a lot easier and more reliable. And I'm not even talking about drivers

> Asahi uses lots of workarounds (including pretending to be MacOS) to be even able to boot the linux kernel.

In the x86 sphere it isn't that much better either, most ACPI tables are thoroughly broken if Linux announces itself as Linux and not as Windows. In fact, a lot of machines' ACPI tables barely work on Windows.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#94

Post by dml2135 »

bzzzt wrote: post #87
smith7018 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people are singlehandedly saving _millions_ of laptops from going to the landfill one day. That's a valiant effort and they're doing it wonderfully. Regardless, one of the points of Linux is to install it on as much hardware as possible. Do you think people that managed to get it installed on iPods, PS5s, Wiis, Chromebooks, routers, Nintendo Switches, etc. should all stop just because they're doing something un…

Those laptops don't need to go to any landfill. They are much too precious to not recycle the metals and other materials and will be taken care of if you return them to the manufacturer. (by law, at least in the EU)

Still, reuse > recycling

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#95

Post by smith7018 »

preisschild wrote: post #90
bzzzt wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UEFI or its predecessor ACPI are complicated and support a long list of legacy stuff that has absolutely no value to Apple at all so why should they do the development? It's like asking Tesla for a fuel tank so it would be easier to install a gasoline engine.

You don't have to support "legacy stuff", just make sure a modern linux kernel can boot without apple-specific workarounds

Why should Apple care if a modern Linux kernel boots without workarounds on their hardware? Should they also ensure Windows and Android can boot on the hardware easily?

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#96

Post by shvarr »

Asahi could be a viable alternative, however, with this amount of funding, small manpower pool pace of development is doomed to be too slow.

There's groundwork that's already been done, as mentioned in the article, which brings some dividends, but, ultimately, there is a new mac every year that comes with a new chip, a plethora of microcontrollers and gpu changes, impossible to keep up with, that is why asahi team is focused more on m1 and m2 models. Even so, to this day both of them have issues with idle power management and alt-dp implementation, preventing many to switch, by the time they will have been ironed out the value of machines would be significantly diminished.

It is a miracle how much so few can do, but in the end, despite ubiquitous media coverage it looks like team's enthusiasm and passion have dwindled to the point that even m1 air will never be ready.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#97

Post by outadoc »

smith7018 wrote: post #95
preisschild wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to support "legacy stuff", just make sure a modern linux kernel can boot without apple-specific workarounds

Why should Apple care if a modern Linux kernel boots without workarounds on their hardware? Should they also ensure Windows and Android can boot on the hardware easily?

> Why should Apple care if a modern Linux kernel boots without workarounds on their hardware?

To sell more hardware?

Obviously I get your point, but there's a bunch of customers who would like good ARM hardware but can't accomplish their work with macOS. It's not like Apple needs this tiny market, but it wouldn't hurt them either.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#98

Post by amelius »

simonh wrote: post #88
amelius wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

marcan addressed this early on in the project, arguing that Intel platforms including some of those advocated for by the FSF are less open and more at risk of upstream abuse in some very significant ways. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29684585 For example intel systems (and Android) run resident supervisor code you can't get rid of, and that can do remotely initiated updates you have no control over. That's no…

What good does that bring if Apple shuts down the project?

Also, I don't believe Apple has no backdoors and such. They basically made it impossible to be root on your iPhone, so you don't think they have a almighty-super-superuser mode on their laptops that only they can use? Wishful thinking if you ask me.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#99

Post by torben-friis »

shvarr wrote: post #96

Asahi could be a viable alternative, however, with this amount of funding, small manpower pool pace of development is doomed to be too slow. There's groundwork that's already been done, as mentioned in the article, which brings some dividends, but, ultimately, there is a new mac every year that comes with a new chip, a plethora of microcontrollers and gpu changes, impossible to keep up with, that is why asahi team is…

If they can set a single machine as target every few years and make it work, that would be a lot better than having no alternative.

M1 support is pretty usable nowadays, and I would imagine at least a fraction of the work translates to future devices... It's not sunshine and rainbows, but it isn't a project doomed to fail either.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#100

Post by troyvit »

sneak wrote: post #8

It is baffling to me that Apple, ostensibly a hardware company (that happens to be pursuing services revenue the way a crackhead pursues crack), ridiculously flush with cash, doesn’t throw 2 or 3 of their thousands of FTEs on this. The goodwill/brand marketing alone is worth their comp, and it will absolutely move units as well. Linux people LOVE laptops, and Apple makes the best laptops by a parsec. It seems like 10…

They've been like this long before they were a digital services company. 25 years ago Yellow Dog Linux (another RPM based distro) had the same challenges working with PowerPC. The scientific community was clamoring for an open platform to use their native Linux software with the PowerPC, YDL filled that niche, and Apple watched their struggles supporting Linux on their platform with detached amusement.
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