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Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

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Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#701

Post by solenoid0937 »

Perenti wrote: post #506
solenoid0937 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot be serious if you think this. Please do some actual research on how China treats dissident citizens. They ship their human rights lawyers off to concentration camps, force them to eat their own feces, then rape and/or murder them. 57k citizens disappeared since 2013, at least 5k more every year. I don't get disappeared for criticizing the US government online. The US government doesn't censor most media I…

To be honest, my first thought was also that the line between how the US treats its citizens and how China does theirs is very fine. You may not be aware of how the USA is represented outside the USA. Quite a lot of serious people think this way, in many parts of the world.

> Quite a lot of serious people think this way, in many parts of the world.

Why? Lack of education? Lack of interest in what life is like around the world? Overconsumption of trendy headlines?

This stuff is taught in most schools (to my understanding) and very easy to look up. It literally just takes a few minutes to learn about how horrific these human rights are in China in comparison to the US. Anyone thinking about "where should superintelligence go!?" should certainly be looking this up.

This is why I say I'm sick of people that haven't thought about the AI safety problem critically, posting their unqualified hot takes on it - OP insisted he's thought about this to the same level. Much like a patient that thinks they can be a doctor too, he clearly did not, because this train of thought and this research is practically prerequisite to the discussion.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#702

Post by solenoid0937 »

Laurel1234 wrote: post #644
solenoid0937 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN hysteria is ridiculous. All of this is totally understandable if you take the perspective that these people genuinely believe they're building superintelligence. The overwhelming majority of the AI safety crowd - which has poured more of their life and time into thinking about these problems than the average HN armchair commentator ever would - understands that: - you want to prevent China from getting to superint…

> All of this is totally understandable if you take the perspective that these people genuinely believe they're building superintelligence. They aren't, they are building LLMs. They aren't even building AGI and they all know it. Hell, even if they came up with AGI, then Anthropic's service model would become slavery so I'm not sure why they'd want to.

> They aren't even building AGI and they all know it.

That's a strong claim. Why do you believe they're lying about their beliefs? Have you ever interacted with the safety crowd or people that work at labs? They all seem to have high conviction in my experience.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#704

Post by nonethewiser »

appplication wrote: post #477
pmarreck wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don’t mean to insult you, but it is probably worth refreshing yourself on when slippery slope is actually a fallacy. It’s not correct to suggest logical extension of an established precedent is a slippery slope.

The Slippery Slope Fallacy Fallacy

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#705

Post by nativeit »

brookst wrote: post #513
appplication wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t mean to insult you, but it is probably worth refreshing yourself on when slippery slope is actually a fallacy. It’s not correct to suggest logical extension of an established precedent is a slippery slope.

Slipper slope is always a fallacy. It works as a metaphor, and as a rhetorical device, but the fact that it’s possible to construct a gradient from heaven to hell is not proof that each step in the gradient is inevitable. It’s a good way to illustrate a potential bad path. But I can construct a slippery slope from commenting on HN to making bioweapons. That should not be seen as evidence that HN commenters are likely…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

In a slippery-slope argument, a course of action is rejected because the slippery slope advocate believes it will lead to a chain reaction resulting in an undesirable end or ends. The core of the slippery slope argument is that a specific decision under debate is likely to result in unintended consequences. The strength of such an argument depends on whether the small step really is likely to lead to the effect. This is quantified in terms of what is known as the warrant (in this case, a demonstration of the process that leads to the significant effect).

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#706

Post by [deleted] »

brookst wrote: post #664
jonathanstrange wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not correct. Many slippery slope arguments are perfectly valid and sound, namely whenever there is plausible evidence for the existence of the respective slippery slope. It can for instance be based on historical precedents, or on probabilistic or convincing balance of consideration sub-arguments for the slippery slope premise. Whether its a fallacy or not depends a lot on how warranted the slippery slope prem…

Give an example where a slippery slope is itself a legitimate argument and not just a rhetorical technique to oppose A using arguments against B?

[deleted]

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#707

Post by nonethewiser »

avadodin wrote: post #649
Finbel wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Textbook fallacy fallacy.

Fallacy fallacy(and variants) implies there is a fallacy in the first place. If the slope is slippery, it is not a fallacy to conclude that things will slide when placed on it. Claiming something is a fallacy —when it is not— is simply a false statement of fact.

Textbook fallacy fallacy fallacy

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#709

Post by nonethewiser »

drdexebtjl wrote: post #438
NewsaHackO wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of those don't actually require proxying Claude. Also, Claude has made it apparent time and time again that it does not want people using Claude Code as a "tool" in a workflow. If you want to select a model dynamically based on the prompt difficulty, Anthropic wants people to use the API for this. It was the whole issue Claude had with OpenClaw.

This forum is called Hacker News. I would expect most users not to limit themselves to using tools precisely how they were intended to be used.

Irrelevant in terms of what sort of usage Anthropic will enforce.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#710

Post by nonethewiser »

Laurel1234 wrote: post #644
solenoid0937 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN hysteria is ridiculous. All of this is totally understandable if you take the perspective that these people genuinely believe they're building superintelligence. The overwhelming majority of the AI safety crowd - which has poured more of their life and time into thinking about these problems than the average HN armchair commentator ever would - understands that: - you want to prevent China from getting to superint…

> All of this is totally understandable if you take the perspective that these people genuinely believe they're building superintelligence. They aren't, they are building LLMs. They aren't even building AGI and they all know it. Hell, even if they came up with AGI, then Anthropic's service model would become slavery so I'm not sure why they'd want to.

He overstated it. Trying to protect yourself from being cloned by competitors just makes sense from Anthropic's perspective. It doesnt require a belief that you are building super intelligence. You could be building PracticalBathroomWidget#467.
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