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Bun has an open PR adding shared-memory threads to JavaScriptCore

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Re: Bun has an open PR adding shared-memory threads to JavaScriptCore

#321

Post by AlexeyBelov »

solid_fuel wrote: post #230
Jarred wrote: post #190

I’m the author of this PR. This PR is an implementation of the design from https://webkit.org/blog/7846/concurrent-javascript-it-can-wo... . I think it would be really cool if JavaScript had true shared object multi-threading without compromises (SharedArrayBuffer, postMessage are not that). If we had both threads and structs, it’s likely the TypeScript compiler would never have needed to be rewritten in Go. The titl…

> I’m the author of this PR. > And yes, the PR description is entirely Claude. If you didn't write it, you're not the author. That's how it works, man. I would also love to read that blog post about the Rust rewrite, when you get it published.

He's not even replying anywhere in this comment section. He doesn't care.

Re: Bun has an open PR adding shared-memory threads to JavaScriptCore

#322

Post by solid_fuel »

AlexeyBelov wrote: post #321
solid_fuel wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m the author of this PR. > And yes, the PR description is entirely Claude. If you didn't write it, you're not the author. That's how it works, man. I would also love to read that blog post about the Rust rewrite, when you get it published.

He's not even replying anywhere in this comment section. He doesn't care.

Yeah, I know. Not a single comment in reply to any questions of substance in at least a month. I suspect he knows that his choices are indefensible, that's why he doesn't bother to defend them. Can't wait to read that blog post that's totally coming any day, though.

Re: Bun has an open PR adding shared-memory threads to JavaScriptCore

#323

Post by Eufrat »

scared_together wrote: post #289
Eufrat wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still really don’t understand what is so entitled about asking for a level of base empathy and care from maintainers. People now yell at you that their only obligation is whatever is spelled out in the license they attached to the code. I think this is the same place where the logic of Code = Law comes from. People who think that you can encode the legal/judicial system into a set of axioms. This is not how the law…

> I still really don’t understand what is so entitled about asking for a level of base empathy and care from maintainers. > People now yell at you that their only obligation is whatever is spelled out in the license they attached to the code. Let’s turn your implied question around: if a person wants to share code without any expectation of care and maintenance, what should they do? Is the entire concept bogus, and t…

Textualism is a scam wrapped in academic regalia. It is implausible on its face and arguing that “we only have the text to go off of” sounds nice and is demonstrably not how the law has been parsed.

> What communication other than the license could reasonably be provided?

Nobody encodes everything in text. No law can be fully represented in text. The law is a combination of many things including norms and customs at a moment in time. The law as written is a framework. This can be demonstrated pretty obviously in just how some laws are written intentionally vague because we have human beings to parse them for meaning and context. A legal/justice machine does not and will never exist as long as these are frameworks for human interaction. This is not a computable problem and attempting it to frame it as one is deeply harmful.

I have met a lot of EECS folks who think that the law is just a set of rules to be applied and that a consistent and fair decision will just “happen”. This is ridiculous and anyone who thinks this should be smacked with a copy of the Bluebook.

There is also kind of a spirit vs. letter of the law issue here. The intention and spirit in which this software is given out should and must inform how the law is interpreted. Arguing this isn't how the law works is just wrong. I stress this because it shows just how fuzzy the law really is. I think people want bright lines where they don't exist. I don't know what the obsession with this is, but it is unproductive.

I certainly understand that this desire to return to a more nuanced and more empathetic view of all of this has gradients, but I think I am just deeply saddened how any attempt to suggest that there were and should still be some implied cultural norms regarding expectations and the response from some folks really sounds like an angry Ayn Rand instead of a discussion about what that means. It’s just a blanket rejection for a lot of people here. Software is for people. The consumers are ultimately people. People are the only things that matter.

Like, you start a business and society—through the government and law has said—hey, you can’t refuse to serve people based on certain reasons. This is actively being attacked by some people with the same pathetic argument of, “You can’t tell me what to do. I hate X and it’s my free speech right to tell them to go pound sand. I never agreed to the civil rights acts!” It’s like the stupidest version of Ron Swanson.

Re: Bun has an open PR adding shared-memory threads to JavaScriptCore

#324

Post by Eufrat »

TalkingCodeMonk wrote: post #318
Eufrat wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still really don’t understand what is so entitled about asking for a level of base empathy and care from maintainers. People now yell at you that their only obligation is whatever is spelled out in the license they attached to the code. I think this is the same place where the logic of Code = Law comes from. People who think that you can encode the legal/judicial system into a set of axioms. This is not how the law…

I'm not arguing against a base level of empathy and care for maintainers. I'm arguing FOR a base level of empathy and care FROM maintainers WHO CHOOSE to build for-profit products in the open, and that empathy for all parties should be the base expectation from a healthy community, rather than the narcissistic view of "nobody owes their communities anything, regardless of context". The narssisist view leads to the be…

I am agreeing with you, sorry if that wasn’t clear.

I was just expressing frustration that a lot of people seem to think this is imposing some kind of undue burden on them when I’ve always just thought of it as the cost of existing in society is to…have some empathy?

Re: Bun has an open PR adding shared-memory threads to JavaScriptCore

#326

Post by bastawhiz »

stephen wrote: post #24
bastawhiz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't help anyone using Node. I don't want to have to start using a new runtime because my compiler is slow. That's wild.

You're already using a new runtime with tsgo -- it's golang at build time -- but still running Node in prod, so the same could work here. :-) Agreed I would not want all Typescript users forced to use /this/ runtime, but if the TS team shipped tsc as "oh now it's uses a special fast JS runtime" (just like tsgo is a different runtime) I'd love to at least have the option of using the same special fast runtime in my ow…

tsgo isn't loading a full js jit compiler and a significant subset of the Node standard library. I'd be equally upset to see a Python compiler installing Pypy as a performance improvement to compile code for CPython faster.

Re: Bun has an open PR adding shared-memory threads to JavaScriptCore

#327

Post by scared_together »

Eufrat wrote: post #323
scared_together wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still really don’t understand what is so entitled about asking for a level of base empathy and care from maintainers. > People now yell at you that their only obligation is whatever is spelled out in the license they attached to the code. Let’s turn your implied question around: if a person wants to share code without any expectation of care and maintenance, what should they do? Is the entire concept bogus, and t…

Textualism is a scam wrapped in academic regalia. It is implausible on its face and arguing that “we only have the text to go off of” sounds nice and is demonstrably not how the law has been parsed. > What communication other than the license could reasonably be provided? Nobody encodes everything in text. No law can be fully represented in text. The law is a combination of many things including norms and customs at…

With regards to interpreting the laws, I mostly agree with you, although I certainly haven’t delved as deep into the true meaning of law in society.

But I still don’t understand what you actually expect from maintainers of free and open source software. In prior comments you have used words like “empathy” but I’m wondering in more specific terms what you mean. What should be maintained, and what should be abondoned? What should stay stable and what should be updated?

I ask because when you say stuff like

> I am just deeply saddened how any attempt to suggest that there were and should still be some implied cultural norms regarding expectations

I’d feel very differently about that comment based on the “expectations” that are “implied”.

And perhaps your answers might help me out a bit, to be honest. There are plenty of times when I use an open source library and get annoyed by the decisions of upstream developers, but I often wonder if my annoyance should be directed at upstream at all, or at myself.

Re: Bun has an open PR adding shared-memory threads to JavaScriptCore

#328

Post by mahogany »

jitl wrote: post #258
fizzynut wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10k in 2hrs is 1.5 lines of code per second for 2 hours straight without spending any time to make comments, think about what the code is doing, etc. In pre-ai era that is just skimming and trusting the person who wrote it or the code changes are largely auto-generated or there exists an exceedingly simple test suite that is incredibly verbose. Post-ai you are ruining your code base, I probably have to spend 3-5x lon…

> Post-ai you are ruining your code base if a pr is bad, i will reject it. that's the point of code review.

The point is that there is a 0% chance you can meaningfully understand the impact and consequences of what a 10k line change is doing in a couple hour review, so there’s no way for you to know if it’s “bad” in any sense other than it’s so awful that it’s obvious on a skim (which is what 10k lines in a couple hours is).

Re: Bun has an open PR adding shared-memory threads to JavaScriptCore

#329

Post by amazingman »

port11 wrote: post #288
amazingman wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dogmatism on both ends of this argument grows tiresome.

Indeed. And so is reading “x is the real thing. Real y, real z.” Plus all the other filler crap. If you can command a model, you can tell it to write without fluff. The amount of effort to ask an LLM to do work is massively lower than the effort for a human to review it.

I don't find this problem any different than with human writers. Agents are verbose, sure, but I mostly find them providing far more useful information (in far less time) than your average (P80, really) SWE.

Re: Bun has an open PR adding shared-memory threads to JavaScriptCore

#330

Post by nevertoolate »

amazingman wrote: post #329
port11 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. And so is reading “x is the real thing. Real y, real z.” Plus all the other filler crap. If you can command a model, you can tell it to write without fluff. The amount of effort to ask an LLM to do work is massively lower than the effort for a human to review it.

I don't find this problem any different than with human writers. Agents are verbose, sure, but I mostly find them providing far more useful information (in far less time) than your average (P80, really) SWE.

  def my_swe_percentile(best_agent_swe_percentile):
      return min(100, best_agent_swe_percentile * 1.25)
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