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Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
611–620 of 817 posts
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#612Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are Chinese programmers really prohibited from accessing American models?
By the terms of service: https://www.anthropic.com/supported-countries
GGP said "legally prohibited" not "against terms of service"
Keep in mind the only law that applies to them is Chinese law, so even if violating a term of service was illegal in America (it isn't) it would also have to be illegal in China to justify the statement.
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#613Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just like we take unreliable machines and make a reliable system by load balancing and fail over we can do with vendors. Any sane company should not be too deeply tied to any one AI vendor at the moment and be ready and able to switch with a timeline and cost as acceptable to the org. TLDR: Be prepared to use multiple AI vendors.
Sure but that adds a lot of complexity and cost to your business. It’s much simpler and safer to just work with more reliable vendors to begin with. Why build on quicksand when there’s rock available?
In most of business, there isn't rock available. You have to build on what's there and accept it.
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#614Earlier quoted context omitted.
The usage of the output is probably considered legal. The usage of the service for that purpose may not be, and using it at scale in a dishonest way is not, which is what China has been doing. Countless thousands of separate requests abusing the service (which is not a simple static HTML feed, but an AI service request) for every kind of query to soak up the results. The post is about what's in the local code, but fo…
> The CCP is darkside material. And which country has "Black Sites" peppered around the world to detain and interrogate people they don't like?
The US doesn't have black sites anymore and when it did, the interrogation techniques were chosen to avoid physical harm. The results were bad, we didn't like it here in the US even if they were extreme measures for extreme times and so we shut it down. It had a high error rate and generally didn't reflect what we thought was right.
Meanwhile the CCP regularly abducts its own citizens and executes more people than the entire world combined.
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#615Value judgment aside: I am a bit surprised at how sloppily they did this. I think they could've achieved the same effect while decreasing the odds of detection via reverse engineering. (This field is known as "underhanded code", coined by the Underhanded C contest: https://www.underhanded-c.org . It's a little-known "art"; little-known for probably self-explanatory reasons. There are much cleverer ways of achieving o…
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Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#616Earlier quoted context omitted.
Were the copyright owners contacted prior to this lawful obtaining that you speak of? Or after?
I miss the days when tech people were copyright skeptics. Remember when everyone was upset with Disney for our perpetual copyright regime and the destruction of public domain? Now many tech people are copyright maximalists and 100% converted to the church of Disney. It’s depressing.
I don't think that's right. The problem is that Anthropic is hoarding it and that's hypocritical. If copyright doesn't count for Anthropic, they should publish Claude. If they wanna hide Claude behind copyrights and/or TOS, they don't get to screw with other people's copyrights and TOS and then profit from it.
To call that opinion "copyright maximalist 100% converted to the church of Disney" is, at the very least, hyperbole.
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#617Earlier quoted context omitted.
The usage of the output is probably considered legal. The usage of the service for that purpose may not be, and using it at scale in a dishonest way is not, which is what China has been doing. Countless thousands of separate requests abusing the service (which is not a simple static HTML feed, but an AI service request) for every kind of query to soak up the results. The post is about what's in the local code, but fo…
> The CCP is darkside material. And which country has "Black Sites" peppered around the world to detain and interrogate people they don't like?
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#618There are some commentors in this thread downplaying the severity of a service provider being less than transparent about exactly what their shipped tooling does on customer's machines. That the provider's business needs necessitate the this behaviour doesn't justify their lack of honest disclosure. That honest disclosure would render the solution to their problem useless isn't my problem. If anything, that they thou…
> If anything, that they thought this was acceptable makes me wonder what else they're harvesting from my machine? PII?
Hah, you just reminded me of this meme I spotted the other day: https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/an76Wnz_460swp.webp
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#619Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why does it matter if China gains those capabilities? I invite you to begin to learn about China's behavior around the world. The CCP is darkside material. Reminds me of this comic: https://xcancel.com/tomgauld/status/571994690289061888?lang=... None of the superpowers in this world is innocent, and like MAD, more countries have the capability, the better. I know some of the things CCP do/did. I know some of the th…
Certainly the world is full of actions and reactions, nothing is happening in a vacuum. You don't have to be from a country to take sides, but presumably you have some kind of moral compass, some kind of values around personal freedom or the worth of a human life. There can be a very real cost, because one side comes from an ideology with a history that wants to conquer the entire Earth which caused World War 2 while…
You sound like you've swallowed pro-US-propaganda hook, line and sinker.
The reason the middle-east is at constant war is because colonialist machinations. Same goes for south-Saharan Africa. And the US is a big colonialist player, just ask Vietnam, South-America, Iran, Afghanistan, etc. They all have been attacked by the US because of US colonial interests. If anything, one could make the argument that the PRC is treading much more lightly than the US.
That said - I'm not defending the PRC by any way; it's a state-capitalist hell hole that's suppressing workers by denying them any ability to organize and whose political class is purely focused on furthering their own interests and that of the moneyed elite, the common person be damned.
The thing is - so is the US.
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#620Earlier quoted context omitted.
> distilling the model with another model is not illegal per se. Just because it is legal, that doesn't mean Anthropic wouldn't reasonably want to prevent that from happening (which, from my understanding, isn't illegal either).
What Anthropic is doing is illegal in many jurisdictions. I don't know about the legal situation for the Chinese domains they mark, but steganographic data extraction without user consent would definitely be illegal in the EU, for example.
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