Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

thereallo.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 817 posts

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#491

Post by lelanthran »

nomel wrote: post #244
Terr_ wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hysterical. The intent of this steg is excruciatingly clear Even good goals do not excuse malicious or reckless execution. The ends do not always justify the means. Whether or not it harmed you this time , it's a violation of trust and autonomy. Surely you'd be angry if someone secretly installed a rootkit onto your computer, even if--at least for now--it only had code to try to detect and snitch on Public Enemy #1…

What do you see as malicious or reckless here, exactly? This seems to be a VERY low resolution, functionally anonymous, bit of info, probably related to protecting their IP from bad actors breaking the TOS. This looks like it's covered in the second bullet point of the "Personal data we automatically receive", that you consented to: > Usage Information: We collect information about your use of the Services, such as t…

> probably related to protecting their IP

The same IP that is a highly compressed collection of everyone's else's IP?

That's hilarious.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#492

Post by eloisius »

ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #488
eloisius wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like these distillers can learn from Claude’s output. Fair use is fair use.

I don't think Anthropic argues that distillation violates copyright. AFAIK, their position is that it violates their terms and conditions for interacting with their servers.

I think Anthropic will argue whatever argument is likely to protect their interests. I don’t expect anything consistent or moral from them. My quibble is with all the Anthropic fanboys who repeat this crap.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#493

Post by jurschreuder »

Nobody trusts the Chinese that's the problem, not that people don't trust Claude.

Why was this person from Hong Kong going through the details of Claude code for obvious security reasons? There are some other obvious reasons that come to mind.

Maybe it's an eye opener for this person how much the trust in Chinese companies has eroded in the West.

Even if they suddenly stop stealing IP, which this "security research" article would certainly not suggest is happening, it would be a very long time before trust is restored.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#494

Post by Grimblewald »

mrshadowgoose wrote: post #215

The conclusion of this blog post is a bit hysterical. The intent of this steg is excruciatingly clear (identifying usage by Chinese firms that may be conducting model distillation). It's unclear on how this "punishes normal developers" in any shape or form.

So block people, instead of having false positives be secretly fucked over, and having them pay for the pleasure?

Given the hidden model degradation of fable and now this, what makes you think this is where it stops? That's just what we know about and there's clearly a long-standing and deeply rooted malicious intent here.

I've had Claude fuck over clean well documented code-bases for no reason, and there's a good chance this is due to some faulty trigger. Luckily I don't trust these things one bit, and claude only ever runs in an isolated VM, however, I am pissed I am being made to pay for their errors in detection and waste my time fixing things I apparently paid to have fucked up.

That's unacceptable conduct. It's witch-hunting. Punishment and attacks on you for things without real proof. That isn't right.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#495

Post by solenoid0937 »

skeptic_ai wrote: post #481
solenoid0937 wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything they do is understandable if you think they are being honest when they say they're building superintelligence. In this case they want to prevent a nation that censors its citizenry, puts/disappears dissidents into concentration camps for decades, and makes its own human rights lawyers literally eat their own shit, before raping and/or murdering them, from reaching superintelligence. In this light, some cli…

And do a -10 in their reputation. Plus blow up on hn first item on home page. I’m sure they are not very happy about this. And the sentiment of the people is going more negative by the week. I have a feeling they will eventually drop the facade of “we’re the nice and ethic people” and will work with palantir so they can survive the future: ipo and models bans.

I doubt Anthropic cares about the HN front page.

They've done a bunch of things that hurt their valuation to stick to their red lines. To me it just reads as unsupported cynicism to call it a facade.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#496

Post by solenoid0937 »

silver_silver wrote: post #427
solenoid0937 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Do you know how their human rights violations compare to, say, western nations? You have to be joking

Please do some research on how they treat their own dissident citizens.

57k citizens disappeared since 2013, and another 5k every year. Their human rights lawyers sent to concentration camps, forced to eat their own shit, raped, and then murdered.

Mere online criticism of the government gets you a visit from the police and gets you put on the watchlist. Often a few months' imprisonment without trial.

This is not even mentioning the fact that most media is censored in China.

You are out of your mind if you think China has a better human rights record than western nations.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#497

Post by solenoid0937 »

rescbr wrote: post #431
solenoid0937 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rationalists and subsequently AI safety branch invented a religion in a roundabout way If you are arguing in good faith you can very clearly reason about any given AI safety take. Case in point, you refused to engage with most of the questions because you know the conclusions they lead to. > Medicine is largely based on evidence and real-life observations, unlike AI safety "AI safety doesn't exist" is certainly a t…

> Why do you think it's better that a country that turns its citizens into a pulp for criticizing the government, and censors most media to control its citizens' thoughts, reach SI before one that is democratically elected and in which you can generally criticize the government? Which country are you referring to? As an outsider who is neither American or Chinese, day by day it seems like the US is inching towards th…

You cannot be serious if you think this. Please do some actual research on how China treats dissident citizens.

They ship their human rights lawyers off to concentration camps, force them to eat their own feces, then rape and/or murder them. 57k citizens disappeared since 2013, at least 5k more every year.

I don't get disappeared for criticizing the US government online. The US government doesn't censor most media I can consume. These nations are not even in the same galaxy when it comes to human rights. They are not comparable in the slightest.

It is shocking how many people on HN have such a poor understanding of the state of the world. Spend some time outside the tech world. Your liberal arts education has to have seriously failed you if you thought this was a reasonable comparison.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#498

Post by Finbel »

pmarreck wrote: post #476
kiproping wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First its the "Chinese" then it will be people using "cyber" capabilities, or "jailbreaking" or "going against Dario" or any other thing they find "objectionable".

[flagged]

Textbook fallacy fallacy.

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#499

Post by ToValueFunfetti »

eloisius wrote: post #492
ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Anthropic argues that distillation violates copyright. AFAIK, their position is that it violates their terms and conditions for interacting with their servers.

I think Anthropic will argue whatever argument is likely to protect their interests. I don’t expect anything consistent or moral from them. My quibble is with all the Anthropic fanboys who repeat this crap.

I'd think the problem with fanboys is that they don't care about the truth of the underlying arguments. They just want to score points for their team. Do you have a different issue with them? If not, why not engage with the arguments yourself?

Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests

#500

Post by dackdel »

ok123456 wrote: post #310
ezoe wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot "Think about the children"

Won't somebody please think of the Chinese cyber children!

what about the "ai children who are hosted on servers in china and usa" think about them too
Post reply on HN