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Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

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Re: Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

#11
post #2

I quite like the semi-colons. I wonder how we ended up with the slightly unwieldy ?foo=bar&some=thing

Is there any reason we couldn't just use that anyway?

If you're relying on HTML forms being filled in to generate queries, the browser will always generate standard query parameters with a question mark and ampersands. But if you're making your own links, you can generate them however you like. Semi-colons should work fine, though you may need to write your one URL parsing functions.

Re: Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

#12
The generic URI syntax actually specifies that any path segment within a URI can be divided up into parts by semicolons (or commas), and suggests using key=value as parameters within that segment.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3.3

   For
   example, the semicolon (";") and equals ("=") reserved characters are
   often used to delimit parameters and parameter values applicable to
   that segment.  The comma (",") reserved character is often used for
   similar purposes.  For example, one URI producer might use a segment
   such as "name;v=1.1" to indicate a reference to version 1.1 of
   "name", whereas another might use a segment such as "name,1.1" to
   indicate the same
There’s no thought given as far as I can see to the relative URL concepts this matrix proposal covers, but the idea of adding key=value data in this format is supported by the RFC, and indeed in a way that supports further adding sub resources below the current one.

Which, by the way, this matrix relative URL proposal seems to ignore - how is ./subpage resolved relative to /map;x=250;y=582 ?

Re: Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

#13
Many comments so far seem to imply (perhaps not intentionally) that this syntax was intended only on the "right side" of the URI, but you can think of it more as adding qualifier-like information to (potentially) each path segment. So in /com/foo/bar you could further qualify foo (perhaps as /com/foo;color=yellow/bar). This can be combined with a (definitionally trailing) query string as well. Someone noted that Spring implements some support for this; the Eclipse Foundation's Jersey (Java REST toolkit) does as well if I remember right.

Re: Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

#14
post #6
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think “how do I implement a search engine whose interface is visible in the browser address bar?” This was a reasonable question on the early web. And that’s why they are called query params. The question mark indicates you’re making a query. And the ampersand is a boolean operator. You could imagine query params implementing | in addition to &.

I think to non-techies the semi-colons are still more intuitive - I often see non-technical people mess up the ? and &, either by using just one of them or by getting them the wrong way around.

I chuckled once when driving having a radio adverts announce "enter in your web browser something.com slash question-mark prize ampersand win to win!"

Re: Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

#15

It did, in at least one way: https://docs.spring.io/spring-framework/reference/web/webmvc...

In every monolithic Java Jersey server I worked in there was always at least 1 class using @MatrixParam instead of the query param equivalent. No one could ever answer me why or who because it was always written in a project before it migrated to git.

Re: Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

#16
Alan Kay kind of said something along those lines, in that he envisioned the world wide web to be more integrative.

If we include this with Matrix URIs, we could have a scheme format that could work with remote data/objects in a convenient and logical way. RESTful APIs do not seem to be quite the same though. Like some universal API ... not sure how it would look.

If my query would be "weather?" then any API should understand this to mean I'd like to return the local weather. But as an API. Naturally we have AI now so any such queries become trivial at all times, but this is still not quite what was meant. We kind of limited things here because "all external input may be malicious". This then meant no further development in this area, because "too dangerous". Every time I try to use JavaScript to read a local file, I am reminded of that as limitation. They did not think that there are valid, non-malicious use cases, so I am using ruby and python rather than JavaScript (I could use node, but it kind of feels ... so dirty when using it).

Re: Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any reason we couldn't just use that anyway?

If you're relying on HTML forms being filled in to generate queries, the browser will always generate standard query parameters with a question mark and ampersands. But if you're making your own links, you can generate them however you like. Semi-colons should work fine, though you may need to write your one URL parsing functions.

Iirc in java I managed to parse those just fine. Ages ago though.

I also recall actually seeing some web pages somewhere using semicolon, possibly IBM stuff.

Re: Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

#18
post #4
post #2

I quite like the semi-colons. I wonder how we ended up with the slightly unwieldy ?foo=bar&some=thing

Seems Like the recommendation changed from supporting ; and & to only using &. Thinking about it, it is a little surprising as, if I remember correctly, in HTML source you should encode & as & right?

& as an escape character only applies to text nodes. Of course, if you want to display the URL on a page, you have to escape it, but not in the href.

Re: Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

#19
post #18
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems Like the recommendation changed from supporting ; and & to only using &. Thinking about it, it is a little surprising as, if I remember correctly, in HTML source you should encode & as & right?

& as an escape character only applies to text nodes. Of course, if you want to display the URL on a page, you have to escape it, but not in the href.

You're supposed to escape & anywhere in HTML, not just in text nodes. If you don't (and many don't) it'll probably work, but browser first tries to interpret it as a start of an entity anyway. Even if it is inside a href etc.

Re: Matrix URIs, a URL syntax from Tim Berners-Lee that never shipped (1996)

#20
post #2

I quite like the semi-colons. I wonder how we ended up with the slightly unwieldy ?foo=bar&some=thing

Is there any reason we couldn't just use that anyway?

You can use it if you want, but the browser doesn’t help you at all. It can’t automatically turn a form into a matrix URI, and it can’t do anything useful with relative matrix URIs.
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