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Claude Sonnet 5

anthropic.com

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Re: Claude Sonnet 5

#301

Post by pigpop »

WhyIsItAlwaysHN wrote: post #272
jatora wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find these nefarious intention theories shallow. It can both be the case that the endstate is them owning the means of production without that being the intended guiding goal. Companies can chase profit without being Leninistic boogeymen.

There is no nefariousness in owning all the means of production, it's the endgame of maximizing profit. However the result is exactly the same, concentration of power.

This is such a defeatist and low agency take. "means of production" are not a limited resource like gold that you have to extract from natural sources or divvy up. They are fundamentally skill and knowledge that anyone can attain and put to use, maybe not on the same scale as a well funded business but even those businesses had to start somewhere in order to grow to the size they are now. So rather than casting aspersions on them, your time would be better spent learning how you too can create some means of production and start producing value.

Re: Claude Sonnet 5

#302

Post by actionfromafar »

e9 wrote: post #293
keeda wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some napkin math -- total global labor compensation is about 50% of the GDP, which puts it in the USD 50 - 60 Trillion range: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/labor-share-of-gdp This source claims that knowledge workers alone (probably because they are paid much more) account for 35 - 50 Trillion of that: https://github.com/danielmiessler/Substrate/blob/main/Data/K... If LLMs can boost their productivity even by an…

I want to propose alternative reality where 1.5-2.5T in value doesn't go to a handful of companies. Instead it turns out to be like restaurants where this gets distributed to lots and lots of small, local, mostly interchangeable teams. There will of course be some super star "chefs" leading the industry and setting trends and some "restaurant chain" like big businesses and supply chain for all of this.

Sysco is pretty big.

Re: Claude Sonnet 5

#303

Post by bckr »

microtonal wrote: post #31

Claude Sonnet 5 is built to be the most agentic Sonnet model yet. It can make plans, use tools like browsers and terminals, and run autonomously at a level that, just a few months ago, required larger and more expensive models. I have been using Sonnet 4.6 more than Opus, because I'm mostly doing agent-assisted development and not fully agent-driven development. This announcement does not make me positive, I have fou…

I suggest you encoding your invariants in the harness. Architectural invariants that can be mechanically checked, including which modules are approved, which dependencies, etc.

Re: Claude Sonnet 5

#304

Post by danenania »

keeda wrote: post #253
everforward wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no way to justify their valuations if they get downgraded to a pair programming tool. They need fully agentic stuff to work and replace human engineers to even come close. Offhand, I’m not even certain whether a model like that could justify the constant retraining we’re doing on the agentic models. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to spend millions or billions on training to reduce hallucinations by 0.3% if yo…

Some napkin math -- total global labor compensation is about 50% of the GDP, which puts it in the USD 50 - 60 Trillion range: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/labor-share-of-gdp This source claims that knowledge workers alone (probably because they are paid much more) account for 35 - 50 Trillion of that: https://github.com/danielmiessler/Substrate/blob/main/Data/K... If LLMs can boost their productivity even by an…

I’d also point out that LLM inference revenue already totals more than 100B annually based on publicly reported numbers. Almost none of that is replacing knowledge workers. Almost all is increasing their productivity. So empirically what you describe is already happening to a nontrivial degree.

Re: Claude Sonnet 5

#305

Post by arcatech »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #285
arcatech wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered getting better at coding so you can build stuff yourself instead of waiting for models you might not be able to get access to anymore?

I'd love to meet the devs who can spin up full feature web apps in under 15 minutes with all the bells and whistles I've gotten Claude to spin up and code. I don't think the AI haters understand the level of time cutting that you can achieve with a very simple and reasonably crafted prompt. I'm talking back-end, with database models, classes, queries, accompanying front-end layouts, with real dynamic data, running. S…

And the trade off for that productivity is relying on a completely untrustworthy company/product that gets more expensive and uncertain by the week while your skills erode.

Re: Claude Sonnet 5

#307

Post by Computer0 »

conradkay wrote: post #268
thewebguyd wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think people are sleeping on the smaller/faster models like Sonnet. As long as you have a detailed plan or small, well scoped individual tasks Sonnet can implement just fine. Opus will still do better at more open ended tasks or completely "vibe coding." Or spec/plan with Opus, and have Sonnet implement.

I was surprised to learn that Sonnet generally has the same tokens per second as Opus

I would indeed be more inclined to use it if the tokens per second were better. Though I would be then using their more expensive Opus less though. Perhaps it is strategy.

Re: Claude Sonnet 5

#308

Post by ricardobayes »

keeda wrote: post #253
everforward wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no way to justify their valuations if they get downgraded to a pair programming tool. They need fully agentic stuff to work and replace human engineers to even come close. Offhand, I’m not even certain whether a model like that could justify the constant retraining we’re doing on the agentic models. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to spend millions or billions on training to reduce hallucinations by 0.3% if yo…

Some napkin math -- total global labor compensation is about 50% of the GDP, which puts it in the USD 50 - 60 Trillion range: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/labor-share-of-gdp This source claims that knowledge workers alone (probably because they are paid much more) account for 35 - 50 Trillion of that: https://github.com/danielmiessler/Substrate/blob/main/Data/K... If LLMs can boost their productivity even by an…

I am deeply surprised by the silence of philosophers, sociologists, liberal arts majors, economists. Where are the think tanks who contemplate and debate the societal aspects? The tech is advancing full steam but the "other side" doesn't feel anywhere nearly ready.

Re: Claude Sonnet 5

#309

Post by pseudosavant »

satvikpendem wrote: post #26

> Evaluations also show that it has a much lower ability to perform cybersecurity tasks than our current Opus models. Why would they brag about something like this? It's like they know people want to use models to perform cybersecurity tasks yet knowingly deny them the ability. And Opus 4.8 is still cheaper for a higher pass rate (much less open weight models like GLM 5.2) so not sure why I'd use Sonnet except on the…

So that the current US administration doesn't block broad usage of Sonnet 5 probably. They'd have to collect your ID and approve you if it was good at cybersecurity. Because such is the freedom in the U.S. right now.

Re: Claude Sonnet 5

#310

Post by laughingcurve »

timcobb wrote: post #173
2001zhaozhao wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two wrinkles to this: - For Claude.ai subscriptions I think Sonnet is much cheaper than Opus. This is why there was a "Sonnet only" usage bar for Max tier for the longest time. - For some tasks the sheer amount of raw input tokens is the most important. For example multimodal computer use tasks. You can't make them any more efficient on Opus by turning down the reasoning, so a cheaper model like Sonnet is u…

> This is why there was a "Sonnet only" usage bar for Max tier for the longest time. it's still there. I still don't totally grok why I can't use all my tokens on Sonnet if I want to... maybe that signals something?

Distillation attacks? Volume of calls?
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