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The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level

libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org

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Re: The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level

#181

Post by dematz »

nradov wrote: post #55
throwway120385 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't a single-payer solution work? The margin that the insurance companies take for themselves seems like a good place to start. From there it would spiral out to the third to half of time that all of the clinical staff spend just dealing with insurance issues and insurance billing.

I'm not necessarily opposed to a single-payer system but the margin that for-profit insurance companies take is a tiny fraction of overall healthcare spending. You could zero it out and it would barely move the needle. And many of the largest commercial health plans such as most Blue Cross Blue Shield Association members are non-profit. There is literally no margin. Provider organizations spend a huge amount of effor…

For what it's worth I know you've worked on FHIR and probably know a lot of details I don't. Actually I'd be interested in talking to you about FHIR.

That said!

1) In the big picture isn't the US clearly paying more than other countries? I'm sure some of this is eg a janitor in the US costs more than a janitor elsewhere, but still...

2) Isn't the cap for the margin that insurance companies can take 20%? That is, they have to pay out 80% as claims take 20% for overhead

3) Doesn't insurance also induce more work done by everyone else who has to deal with them? So the margin the insurance company itself takes is not the only cost they add. Maybe they make providers do more paperwork, or let patients order tests etc that they would not if they were not spending other people's money, or some other reason. Say insurance pays out 80%, but 30% of documentation or actual work is not done by insurance but only exists because of them, now we're down to 56%.

I say this because literally yesterday, my wife, a pediatrician, after she spent the day seeing patients and got home to go through notes, had to leave a message with an insurance company: she saw they faxed her clinic on Saturday, when the clinic was closed, to cancel care for a patient with an ongoing chronic condition with no changes unless the insurance company got a reply in 48 hours (again, while the clinic was closed!). Now she has to schedule some kind of I don't even know what with them, to confirm the condition is the exact same, except she sees patients all day so it's a pain to schedule...

idk the fact that BCBS is a non profit and has no margin in some technical sense does not seem like a big consolation, something is rotten no?

(edit - the insurance company in the anecdote is not BCBS)

Re: The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level

#183

Post by win311fwg »

scottyah wrote: post #149
idiotsecant wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quickly going to devolve into 'nobody suffers unless their suffering as at least as bad as the worst suffering that exists', so let's just go ahead and get that out of the way and move on to something less pointless.

Have you looked up the definition of abject poverty? It is "the most severe and hopeless form of human deprivation". It's the subject of the conversation, how is that pointless?

While you are able to look up someone's definition of abject poverty, the only definition that is relevant in this context is the one held by the author of the earlier comment. It is unlikely you can look up his definition (before he replies to those who have asked for the definition in force).

Re: The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level

#184

Post by mschuster91 »

gruez wrote: post #111
dozerly wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have one of the worlds most prosperous economies, and half of the US is living in abject poverty while quality of life for everyone is decreasing.

>and half of the US is living in abject poverty Source? All the ones I know of use questionable methodology like: "being able to afford a 2 bedroom apartment at median wage".

> All the ones I know of use questionable methodology like: "being able to afford a 2 bedroom apartment at median wage".

Well, that's (at minimum) what you need to raise a family and replace yourself in the labor pool.

Re: The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level

#185

Post by mc32 »

taeric wrote: post #108
dozerly wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have one of the worlds most prosperous economies, and half of the US is living in abject poverty while quality of life for everyone is decreasing.

I'm going to go on a limb and say half of the US is not living in abject poverty? Nor can I get behind the idea that quality of life for folks is on the down trend.

Mississippi, the poorest state, has similar median income to Germany. I’m pretty sure 50% of the people there are not in abject poverty.

Re: The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level

#186

Post by logicchains »

digitaltrees wrote: post #163
taeric wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to go on a limb and say half of the US is not living in abject poverty? Nor can I get behind the idea that quality of life for folks is on the down trend.

I own a Medicaid home care agency in 13 states. We serve low income families and our caregivers, who earn $12-18hr which is higher than minimum wage, absolutely struggle. We have created food banks and housing assistance because even working people are a few sick days or one car repair away from homelessness. I would encourage you to go work with average Americans in average towns. The facts on the ground are stark a…

>I own a Medicaid home care agency in 13 states. We serve low income families and our caregivers

There's an extreme selection bias there. If you run an agency that works with low income families you're not going to see a representative sample of the overall population.

Re: The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level

#187

Post by Bjartr »

idiotsecant wrote: post #124
vdqtp3 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> half of the US is living in abject poverty Anyone who believes this has absolutely no concept of what abject poverty looks like.

This is quickly going to devolve into 'nobody suffers unless their suffering as at least as bad as the worst suffering that exists', so let's just go ahead and get that out of the way and move on to something less pointless.

GP could have just said "poverty" and the vast majority of unconstructive discussion that has followed could have been avoided.

Instead they said "abject poverty" as an emotional emphasizer, and people rightly called them out.

Re: The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level

#188

Post by [deleted] »

dozerly wrote: post #90
legitster wrote: post #61

People are misreading the conclusion - the Covid related drop is normal and matches previous episodes, but the massive overall drop since 2000 is not. The situation on the ground is unchanged - the amount of labor being generated per person has not really changed, but the overall pie has grown massively around us.

We have one of the worlds most prosperous economies, and half of the US is living in abject poverty while quality of life for everyone is decreasing.

[deleted]

Re: The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level

#189

Post by cucumber3732842 »

arthurptj wrote: post #80
aeternum wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marx fails to imagine a world in which labor actually has little to no value. His worldview is primarily that capitalists 'steal' the valuable labor. However it doesn't seem that that is actually the world we are in. Instead the intrinsic value of human labor seems to be slowly trending towards zero. And it kind of makes sense, same has happened with oxen labor, horse labor, etc.

Then why does every plumber I know own a yacht

Industry cartel.

If you landscaper had one like the plumbers do he'd have his own yacht.

Or he wouldn't exist because you'd buy about as much of his services as you do a plumber's.

Re: The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level

#190

Post by newaccountman2 »

saghm wrote: post #151
newaccountman2 wrote: post #127

And the Republic response to this is "soc1lism bad!!"

Not even just Republicans, unfortunately. The generation of Americans who grew up in the Cold War were inundated with propaganda about how socialism would destroy America, and then go and say things like this https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/26/us/politics/moderate-demo...

Yeah. The boomers are a real problem.
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