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HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

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Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#441

Post by WickyNilliams »

prime_ursid wrote: post #430
WickyNilliams wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be correct to say you have experience building LLM based workflows like this? I'm guessing so, given by your critiques and suggestions of better approaches. Can you recommend any books/sites/other for learning these kind of dos and donts?

This is a technique called LLM-as-Judge. Well-studied at this point. Here’s a good intro: https://www.evidentlyai.com/llm-guide/llm-as-a-judge I recommend reading Hamel.dev posts. Here’s an example: https://hamel.dev/blog/posts/evals/

Awesome, thank you! I am starting to do some work building LLM workflows and would like to stand on some giant's shoulders to skip the initial flailing :)

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#442

Post by WickyNilliams »

YossarianFrPrez wrote: post #432
WickyNilliams wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be correct to say you have experience building LLM based workflows like this? I'm guessing so, given by your critiques and suggestions of better approaches. Can you recommend any books/sites/other for learning these kind of dos and donts?

While I have some experience, I'm afraid I am learning mostly through a) trial and error, and b) using an llm chat interface to double check my thinking. This being said, here are my top recommendations: 1. Build your system against real targets. Had HackerRank continually tested their prompt against 2-3 real resumes that were scored by hand, I think some of the issues would have immediately popped out. The people wh…

No apologies necessary, that's perfectly helpful. Appreciate the response and the candour!

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#443

Post by hju22_-3 »

IshKebab wrote: post #348
jghn wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to do any of those 3 things for a would-be employer.

They don't seem like unreasonable things to me so I guess it also helps filter out unreasonable people!

Number 2 is so unusual I would immediately flag the company as a scam. How is asking for money a reasonable approach? There are alternative ways, easier too depending on country, and all you'd be doing is selecting for desperation while also spreading bad rumors from all the people who nope out when they see such malpractice.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#444

Post by another-dave »

gs17 wrote: post #349
another-dave wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, if you go on to Hacker Rank's "Screen" page, they mention the product is used by Stripe/AirBnB/LinkedIn/Atlassian/IBM etc etc. I imagine that there's plenty more companies using it too. But I'd also assume that their competitors are doing something similar so I don't think we as an industry can just ignore that it's happening.

> HackerRank Screen compresses the top of the hiring funnel by replacing manual resume reviews and unstructured phone screens with structured, auto-scored assessments That seems to be a different type of product.

Is it? I thought that's specifically what the OP was talking about — the ranking that their resumé scored on the ATS algorithm.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#445

Post by timgl »

eudamoniac wrote: post #346

I applied to Posthog twice, a couple weeks apart, and was rejected both times at 1:06am on Monday, exactly. So they are obviously using this sort of thing. Just thought I'd name and shame where I can.

We review every single applicant so this doesn't sound right. It might be that rejection emails get batched and sent on a schedule. I can't find your resume based on your username but if you want to send me an email on tim at posthog dot com I will look into it.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#446

Post by Schiendelman »

kailpa1 wrote: post #435
Schiendelman wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, graduating from Harvard is a very good predictor of whether your parents were wealthy, and also that you are less likely to be black. I worked for a very large job board for the last six years, it's the one you're thinking of. What we found is that the outcomes of paying attention to what school you went to are almost entirely discriminatory, and not predictors of success.

That's sad to hear. I guess I'm giving too much credit to schools as a measure of success.

Absolutely. It's correlation, not causation. At least for the most part. The network you build at a very good school exposes you to all those other well connected people, that's the real value.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#447

Post by sfn42 »

aspenmayer wrote: post #440
sfn42 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already said the coin is known to be fair.

> I already said the coin is known to be fair. The coin can be assumed to be fair before the flips , but after the flips we have no mathematical reason to believe that the coin is fair, as our results heavily suggest that it quite simply isn’t fair. However, for the purposes of discussion, assuming an ideal coin, the probability of 500 same flips in a row is so statistically unlikely that fairness of the flipping pro…

Bro just assume there's been a billion flips right before my example indicating it's close to perfectly fair, the only point of my comment was to illustrate that previous flips don't influence future flips. Pretend I said 5 instead of 500 if it makes you feel better.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#448

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

groundzeros2015 wrote: post #378
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #262

This insanity only exists because the tech industry is standard-less. No formal education needed, no formal training requirement, no apprenticeship, no software building code, no professional organization. Resumes have never been a good predictor of success - and why would they be?? Even if they're truthful and it's "impressive looking", that doesn't give you any assurance of knowledge, of who they learned under, wha…

Do you think fields that have formal criteria don’t use resumes with keywords? I bet Lawyers look for school names and big law firms all the time. Credentialing helps maintain a quality floor. Does this person have basic employable skill? Nothing more. It actually doesn’t help you identify levels of talent and skill which is a universal hiring problem. We do have a credential - a CS degree. And you can see it is a mi…

The first big problem is the reliance on the resume at all. You can't express "talent and skill" in 2 pages of bullet points. In the best case the person who's good at making themselves look good actually ends up being that good. In the worst case you pass up an amazing hire because they didn't make the "right" bullet points. We need to stop using resumes, full stop.

But the second big problem is the competence floor. For 10 years now, I've worked with people who can barely do the job, and I often suspect don't understand what's being asked of them. We need people to apprentice so they are taught the correct lessons by a master engineer. There's a reason all the trades do the same thing. It ensures confidence that this person has been vetted and can do the job. Will they do the job? You can't guarantee that. But you also can't get more confident than "a master engineer said they're good to go".

I'm one of those people who dropped out of high school 25 yrs ago and got himself into tech. I was way too green; I had "talent", and none of the rest. I went to a sysadmin bootcamp (which went bankrupt and took my money) and got a couple certs out of it, which didn't help me get hired. I wanted someone to tell me how to do the job, so I could get hired and do the job. I wanted a trade school. What I ended up doing was bullshitting my way into positions and learning on the job. I'd rather have been confident in my abilities from the start (or apprenticed until I was confident).

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#449

Post by groundzeros2015 »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #448
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think fields that have formal criteria don’t use resumes with keywords? I bet Lawyers look for school names and big law firms all the time. Credentialing helps maintain a quality floor. Does this person have basic employable skill? Nothing more. It actually doesn’t help you identify levels of talent and skill which is a universal hiring problem. We do have a credential - a CS degree. And you can see it is a mi…

The first big problem is the reliance on the resume at all. You can't express "talent and skill" in 2 pages of bullet points. In the best case the person who's good at making themselves look good actually ends up being that good. In the worst case you pass up an amazing hire because they didn't make the "right" bullet points. We need to stop using resumes, full stop. But the second big problem is the competence floor…

> You can't express "talent and skill" in 2 pages of bullet points

This is a universal problem though. You only have 2 min of a reviewers time to sell yourself. That’s all a resume is.

> For 10 years now, I've worked with people who can barely do the job

I saw a lot of this before but it’s not been my experience lately. Probably because work for companies that do value degrees.

Once again, we have a credentialing option, it is just (correctly) not enforced.

> We need people to apprentice

Nobody really does this anymore because it’s so inefficient. Even trades which use those terms are really just a regulatory stamp (like professional engineer), not a close teaching relationship.

Apprenticeships were traditionally between very young men 12-14 and lasted for 8-10 years.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#450

Post by fatnoah »

dvt wrote: post #6

An alarming number of people don't understand that LLMs work via purely stochastic processes, so I'm happy to see in-depth pieces like this. I'm looking for a job and maybe this is why it's so hard to get a callback these days: resumes are just dumped in some LLM black hole and no one really knows how it works. The author says: > temperature 0.1 — low, supposedly nudging the model toward deterministic outputs This is…

My favorite recent example was submitting a resume for a job that was almost a word-for-word description of my current title and job at a similarly sized company. Within 24 hours, I got the rejection, and several days later, a recruiter reached out to let me know that my profile looked like a great match for the role and wanted to schedule an intro call.
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