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US Supreme Court Just Blew Up EU-US Data Transfers

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Re: US Supreme Court Just Blew Up EU-US Data Transfers

#21

Post by fdw »

epsteingpt wrote: post #9
josephg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the EU takes the DPA 'independence' seriously, they will end up marginalized in the tech space. If NVIDIA can't sell GPUs to China, will that marginalise chinese technology? Or will it help supercharge a local industry? It might do both - hobbling chinese AI in the short term, but helping chinese competitors emerge in the medium to long term. US tariffs are the same. They might "marginalise" the US economy. But…

Thanks for engaging. People weaponizing the downvote here without good faith discussion is disappointing but expected on HN recently. It's OK, you can take my HN points. > The EU has a tremendous number of smart software engineers. Yes. > They're more than capable of recreating the US tech stack locally. No. Where are the dozens of European tech winners? Seriously. They have the best education system in the world, st…

> Where are the dozens of European tech winners? Seriously. They have the best education system in the world, strong social safety nets, cheap healthcare, and great lifestyles. Why have they not created innovative technologies that turn into worldbeating companies?

Maybe that is because there are US companies competing in the same space that are not held to the same regulations because of treaties like this one. It's hard to build a competitor to AWS, not just technically (although it very much is), but also business-wise - who would choose the unproven startup if you can go with the accepted best practise? By forcing US companies to equal footing, you give European startups more of chance. (Which is a Chinese playbook, too.)

Re: US Supreme Court Just Blew Up EU-US Data Transfers

#22

Post by watwut »

epsteingpt wrote: post #9
josephg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the EU takes the DPA 'independence' seriously, they will end up marginalized in the tech space. If NVIDIA can't sell GPUs to China, will that marginalise chinese technology? Or will it help supercharge a local industry? It might do both - hobbling chinese AI in the short term, but helping chinese competitors emerge in the medium to long term. US tariffs are the same. They might "marginalise" the US economy. But…

Thanks for engaging. People weaponizing the downvote here without good faith discussion is disappointing but expected on HN recently. It's OK, you can take my HN points. > The EU has a tremendous number of smart software engineers. Yes. > They're more than capable of recreating the US tech stack locally. No. Where are the dozens of European tech winners? Seriously. They have the best education system in the world, st…

EU companies are creative. Their economy does not create large monopolies functioning on debt. It has nothing to do with innovation. It is economic structure.

SV works on dumping prices they accuse Chinese of - sell under price until you destroy the competition anyway. Regulating its negative impacts elsewhere is entirely fair.

Re: US Supreme Court Just Blew Up EU-US Data Transfers

#23

Post by croes »

epsteingpt wrote: post #14
croes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Youth unemployment is tragically high across nearly the entire bloc. Look at what happens to countries with high youth unemployment. DPA is exactly the USP where EU companies can beat US companies. So your point is the EU should kill European jobs in favor of Instagram. BTW the best available and align markets are the reason for this https://abcnews.com/US/wisconsin-man-dies-after-inhaler-cost...

Mate if you're going to cherry pick about "markets and alignment" -> More people have died in the EU from heat waves due to lack of air conditioning than gun violence in the US. Ratio is worse if you remove suicide gun death. Societal choices do have consequences! The EU doesn't have to kill jobs. The companies are doing that on their own because they cannot compete. Take a look at what is happening in Germany. The w…

You need the full picture.

Heat is more lethal the older you get. Guess who has the higher life expectancy and more old people who can die of heat.

On top of that come non-unjusted work ethics especially in countries like Germany where non working hours on the hottest hours is still seen as lazy (like the southern Europeans are often seen)

> Take a look at what is happening in Germany.

It’s called resting on one's laurels.

They still try to save ICE cars and fight renewable energy sources. It’s a shame given that Germany once was leading in solar energy.

They can compete but they think they could turn back the wheel of time and could stay on previous technology.

> But you cannot regulate the world there. EU has tried. It has not worked.

You don’t need the regulate the world. Capitalism follows every regulation if the market is big enough and the EU still is big enough. They just aren’t consistent enough in enforcing it because of lobbying of shortsighted companies.

Re: US Supreme Court Just Blew Up EU-US Data Transfers

#24

Post by watwut »

epsteingpt wrote: post #14
croes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Youth unemployment is tragically high across nearly the entire bloc. Look at what happens to countries with high youth unemployment. DPA is exactly the USP where EU companies can beat US companies. So your point is the EU should kill European jobs in favor of Instagram. BTW the best available and align markets are the reason for this https://abcnews.com/US/wisconsin-man-dies-after-inhaler-cost...

Mate if you're going to cherry pick about "markets and alignment" -> More people have died in the EU from heat waves due to lack of air conditioning than gun violence in the US. Ratio is worse if you remove suicide gun death. Societal choices do have consequences! The EU doesn't have to kill jobs. The companies are doing that on their own because they cannot compete. Take a look at what is happening in Germany. The w…

> More people have died in the EU from heat waves due to lack of air conditioning than gun violence in the US.

People in Eu died due to global warming which EU actually tried to deal with. Meanwhile, USA is major contributor to the warming and intentionally torpedoed last chance to make it better. Yes, the temperature is raising faster in Europe then elsewhere. That was not caused by the lack of air conditioning.

Heat waves are new. I don't know why are some Americans trying to create moral panic around air conditioning, it is not like it was illegal in Europe. Air conditioning wont stop global warming. EU do need to plant more trees in cities to create shades and start building houses that will keep cool better. And it is doing so. And again, EU genuinely tried to slow the global warming.

Re: US Supreme Court Just Blew Up EU-US Data Transfers

#25

Post by rixed »

atoav wrote: post #3

As a European citizen I do not trust entities located in the US to not abuse my private data ever since the patriot act. If it was me that deal would have never came to be. If some EU entity decides to use Microsoft 365 can Microsoft guarantee that it won't give access to one US government agency or another? It really can't. Because if that EU entity wants to act in accordance with EU law, this matters. This is what…

Who do you want to abuse your private data then? Some administration closer to home?

It's well overdue to take seriously and put all our efforts behind the many (various but little known) local-first initiatives.

See for instance: https://elfaconsortium.eu/ It's a race against time.

Re: US Supreme Court Just Blew Up EU-US Data Transfers

#27

Post by Kbelicius »

epsteingpt wrote: post #14
croes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Youth unemployment is tragically high across nearly the entire bloc. Look at what happens to countries with high youth unemployment. DPA is exactly the USP where EU companies can beat US companies. So your point is the EU should kill European jobs in favor of Instagram. BTW the best available and align markets are the reason for this https://abcnews.com/US/wisconsin-man-dies-after-inhaler-cost...

Mate if you're going to cherry pick about "markets and alignment" -> More people have died in the EU from heat waves due to lack of air conditioning than gun violence in the US. Ratio is worse if you remove suicide gun death. Societal choices do have consequences! The EU doesn't have to kill jobs. The companies are doing that on their own because they cannot compete. Take a look at what is happening in Germany. The w…

> -> More people have died in the EU from heat waves due to lack of air conditioning than gun violence in the US. Ratio is worse if you remove suicide gun death.

That is mostly on how heat deaths are counted in eu vs usa. In usa heat must be mentioned as a cause of death on the certificate but as those who die in heat waves mostly have underlying issues heat is rearly put as cause of death. In the eu you don't need heath mentioned on the death certificate to count it as a heath death, they count excess deaths.

Re: US Supreme Court Just Blew Up EU-US Data Transfers

#28

Post by joe_mamba »

xiphias2 wrote: post #26

EU needs to decide if it wants to do data processing or not. If it’s a yes, it needs datacenters and get a lot more energy. If no, it needs to transfer data to US for training/inferencing on it.

>If it’s a yes, it needs datacenters and get a lot more energy.

It can outsource its data centers abroad too like it did with its manufacturing industry.

Re: US Supreme Court Just Blew Up EU-US Data Transfers

#29

Post by psychoslave »

epsteingpt wrote: post #14
croes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Youth unemployment is tragically high across nearly the entire bloc. Look at what happens to countries with high youth unemployment. DPA is exactly the USP where EU companies can beat US companies. So your point is the EU should kill European jobs in favor of Instagram. BTW the best available and align markets are the reason for this https://abcnews.com/US/wisconsin-man-dies-after-inhaler-cost...

Mate if you're going to cherry pick about "markets and alignment" -> More people have died in the EU from heat waves due to lack of air conditioning than gun violence in the US. Ratio is worse if you remove suicide gun death. Societal choices do have consequences! The EU doesn't have to kill jobs. The companies are doing that on their own because they cannot compete. Take a look at what is happening in Germany. The w…

EU should be more integrated, sovereign, autonomous, making thrive cooperation through all its counties and talented people and with non-hostile extra-European actors.

But competition is just a trap of short term view. Competition is for losers. Competition is war in disguise that will drop the mask as soon as it feels it is now offering more short term return to the predation mindset eager to destroy everything it can devour. Competition want everyone to be serf. Competition eats Moloch for breakfast thinking how to optimize the pipeline of Moloch production and how to eat them all faster.

Europe must free itself from the competition myths, and the sooner the better.

Re: US Supreme Court Just Blew Up EU-US Data Transfers

#30

Post by epsteingpt »

alextingle wrote: post #20
epsteingpt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously a caricature, but you must engage with the substance of the underlying issue. If you have watched the EU's approach to U.S. tech cos (DMA, DPA) you can see a trend of increased regulation; to where it's not worth sometimes to release apps on the App Store initially to the EU due to GDPR and DMA restrictions. Appreciate it if you take the technical bite out of the comment and engage in good faith here. The r…

I down voted you because you accused the GP of bad faith, rather than genuinely engaging with their point. Don't dig yourself further into that hole by slinging "bad faith" around willy nilly.

You really look at my original comment and think - "yeah that deserves a BIIIIG round of downvotes?" And then I come back and engaged and then you think I'm digging myself in a hole?

I'm having a substantive debate on a difficult issue with different perspectives.

Woof.

And to be clear, I did engage with his point, if only indirectly.

Saying "noyb" isn't the EU is like saying a major influencer like Tucker Carlson isn't the U.S. government. Technically correct, but underrating the influence and alignment it has inside the bloc.

"Yes, noyb (None Of Your Business) is highly popular and influential in the EU. Founded in 2017 in Vienna by prominent privacy advocate Max Schrems, the non-profit organization functions as a leading strategic litigation center that enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)."

It really pains me that even after all this effort, you get downvoted 'for cause.' the discussion unfortunately continues to get worse here.

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