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30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

theintercept.com

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Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#381

Post by 21asdffdsa12 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #129
paisawalla wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

And you think that's worth a 30 year sentence? I think the founders of the US would disagree. Also worth noting that the husband did not conceal evidence of the wife committing a crime. Having political zines isn't illegal. The zines were circumstantial evidence that the prosecution wanted to use to characterize her general political views. They had no direct relation to the events at the ICE detention center.

Im somehow more reminded of the loyalists in the revolutionary wars. 80.000 people who fled to canada, when it became obvious they where no longer wanted or needed by the new administration. Trying to do a Che Guverra against the expressed will of the people - seems kind of extremist.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#382

Post by pnt12 »

green_wheel wrote: post #334

Even if he did exactly what they said he did, no way that's worth 30 years. But people really need to realize that the justice system has been and never will be "blind" or "fair" or whatever you may think it is. It is wielded by those in power largely as they see fit, so keep that in mind if you're thinking about messing with the feds.

It seems especially bad now. This relativistic mindset is really bad for critical thought: "oh, it was never 100% fair". Well, if it was 80% earlier, it seems approaching 20% now. It's a whole new level.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#383

Post by adamsb6 »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #367
JackFr wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they were largely convicted and jailed. One absolute moral abomination of a human is responsible for pardoning them. (Thanks founders!) The disparity in sentencing is likely that they credibly set an ambush to murder law enforcement

How many of the people where sentenced to long prison time?

Enrique Tarrio got 22 years and he wasn’t even there.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#384

Post by aprilthird2021 »

daedrdev wrote: post #32
xrd wrote: post #3

Up until now these crazy cases have been rejected by the courts. But this feels like a crack in the dam. A judge actually sentenced someone to 30 years for hiding zines, zines that had been published for years. This was under the pretense hiding those zines was hiding evidence of criminality. And the criminality was worth 75 years. For someone who was at a protest where a federal agent was shot, but was not the shoot…

If you think that this was a protest then yeah it's worrying. The feds case, which they did win convictions based on, was that they were terrorists who set off fireworks to lure police into an ambush, and there weren't more casualties because one of the members shot early and only injured one cop. An accessory to this who hid evidence is also part of the crime in the Feds case Is this embellished by the Feds? I think…

The pardoned Jan. 6 rioters had a lot of far worse plans that were foiled which could have resulted in more casualties. There was lots of evidence several of them planned to kidnap sitting congressmen and women.

Do you know why they were pardoned and this zine hider got 30 years? Must just be a quirk of the justice system...

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#385

Post by Mickelby »

tkel wrote: post #377
Mickelby wrote: post #333

[flagged]

"Terrorist-related crime"? I mean, wouldn't the entire US air force be guilty of "terrorist-related crimes" for recently bombing a school full of children in Iran? Yet you don't see them being charged. Courts and the term "terrorist" are tools applied by the powerful to those without power in society.

I understand your frustration, you're trying to redefine the word "terrorist" on a website that deals with fact-based tech news.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#386

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

paisawalla wrote: post #249
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think if you append "with the intention to commit a violent crime" to each item on the list, you'll see the issue. That's problematic as you could literally append that to any action and thus condemn it as illegal e.g. met to have some coffees and a chat ... with the intention to commit a violent crime. The problem is that there's not necessarily any connection between the activity and the alleged violent crime -…

> met to have some coffees and a chat ... with the intention to commit a violent crime I'm sorry, do you believe it's legal to meet someone for coffee and credibly plan the commission of a crime, which you then go on to commit?

My point is that there has to be evidence to link the "meeting up for coffee" and the commission of a crime. If a group of people meet for coffee and then later one of them commits a crime, it's not necessarily a conspiracy to commit that crime unless there's evidence (e.g. recorded conversation or witnesses) that the crime was being discussed and planned whilst having a coffee.

Simply appending the phrase "with the intention to commit a violent crime" should not be allowed without evidence of that intention.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#388

Post by ricardobeat »

smsm42 wrote: post #336
ricardobeat wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seven of the people jailed did not shoot the police officer or “assisted” the shooter in any form. They just happened to participate in the protest and share political affinity. The “crime” investigation obstructed by hiding the zines is being left-wing . That has no actual relation to the shooting. That is 100% a free speech issue.

They were the part of the organized criminal group that executed the shooting and later tried to help other criminals to avoid responsibility. If you are part of the group that does the crime, everybody in the group shares the responsibility (not equally, some part of it extends to accomplices) - not only she immediate shooter, but people who helped him to do it too. > The “crime” investigation obstructed by hiding t…

I have no words. You are not responding logically to what I wrote. Good luck to all americans.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#390

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

polski-g wrote: post #259
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there actual evidence of "intent of mass murder"? It seems speculative at best.

Yes. That evidence was presented to the jury and found to be true.

What was the nature of that evidence?

I would assume they'd need something like details of specific conversations, but I am of the opinion that the U.S. administration and courts are acting in bad faith and especially with regards to the operations of ICE.

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