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30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
261–270 of 577 posts
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#262Freedom of speech is absolute. It doesn't matter what the government thinks of the situation. It isn't a "crime" to move publications, even if the police think that. It's sickening how this could even possibly happen.
It is absolutely a crime to conceal evidence in an ongoing criminal trial. The contents of the publications is absolutely irrelevant: the individual was asked to conceal evidence and agreed to do it.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The 30 year sentence was for hiding documentation [...] it wasn't just "transporting Zines" As far as I can tell, the moving of zines (he was pulled over and had a box in his car) is what's being presented as "hiding documentation" - not something beyond that. > being sought under a federal warrant Timeline seems to be that a warrant was obtained after pulling him over ("Sanchez-Estrada was then arrested on state t…
Chilling effect on demonstrations. If you attend one were someone starts shooting you become an accomplice. And ofcourse this also leaves the door open for a "false flag" incident.
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Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Being aware that he was moving the zines to obstruct a federal felony investigation is surely relevant. Intent is an important aspect of crime. A sentence of 30 years in prison for obstructing an investigation is excessive, especially when compared to the "base offense level" of Involuntary Manslaughter (section 2A1.4 found here[0]) being between 12 and 22, roughly translating to between 10 and 51 months in prison[…
Shouldn't the punishment for obstruction, in many cases, be higher than the base offense to prevent that as a default strategy to beat the base offense? Granted, not that much higher, but there is some logic to it being a greater offense.
I don’t think so. If you get a 30 year sentence for transporting zines what stops you from just shooting anyone that comes after you? Multiple lifetimes in jail are irrelevant.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
For clarification, the Jan 6th rioters were attempting insurrection, not protesting. The stroke and suicides were a result of the rioters actions.
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What would you suggest? There are real divisions in this country and a lack of shared ground truth. This thread among many is an example.
I vouched for your earlier comment stating the proximate cause of death for those involved in January 6 because you’re correct.
Still, it’s hard for me to then say with a straight face that, for example, officer sicknick would have died of a stroke if the riot didn’t happen.
That said, nobody was charged with murder or manslaughter in connection with his death, and I respect that even if it doesn’t feel just. Either way, god bless his soul and the other officers who tragically took their own lives.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#266Here's the case: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/antifa-cell-members-con... The 30 year sentence was for hiding documentation being sought under a federal warrant after being called by his wife and asking him to do so. The warrant was for documentation after the protesters shot fireworks to bring out first responders from the ICE facility, and allegedly one of the group shot a responder in the neck instead of th…
> make clear that those who choose violence over lawful expression will face the full force of the American justice system
I’m sure Iran agrees.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being aware that he was moving the zines to obstruct a federal felony investigation is surely relevant. Intent is an important aspect of crime.
> Being aware that he was moving the zines to obstruct a federal felony investigation is surely relevant. Intent is an important aspect of crime. A sentence of 30 years in prison for obstructing an investigation is excessive, especially when compared to the "base offense level" of Involuntary Manslaughter (section 2A1.4 found here[0]) being between 12 and 22, roughly translating to between 10 and 51 months in prison[…
> A sentence of 30 years in prison for obstructing an investigation is excessive
Being excessive is the point. It's to deter others from trying to copy their actions.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
Domestic terrorists who shoot people in the neck. Among millions of things that the government claims to protect mw from, this is one of a few things that I don't doubt I want to be protected from. There's absolutely zero free speech issues here.
One might consider ICE detention centers to be morally equivalent to concentration camps. This sounds like the federal government trying to protect a controversial agency and immigration policy under the current regime, not ordinary citizens. The man who got 30 years wasn't there and didn't fire a gun.
Doesn't matter how they morally equivocate. The reasonable way to address this is through voting and the legal system. If you want to start shooting people, then prepare for a well-deserved, long prison sentence.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Lure police into an ambush" is quite a stretch. It's quite normal to do noise demonstrations outside jails/prisons to show solidarity with the captives, the captives will often times knock on the windows to communicate back. In fact there were noise demonstrations outside the Delaney Hall ICE jail in New Jersey just this month, which you may have heard about. The mischaracterization of fireworks as "explosives" is a…
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> Or are you saying you'd be happy to have one of these shot at your face?
Given the choice between the fireworks and an actual grenade? Yeah, absolutely.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Btw - > If you want to concede that it's fascist to want violent criminals prosecuted, I believe it is fascist to bring trumped up charges for ridiculousness. Say for example the case of “sandwich guy” who the DoJ spent three attempts at a grand jury to bring federal charges. For throwing a fully loaded Subway sandwich at a kitted out ICE officer. Started by sending a full swat team of twenty armed agents to his apar…
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