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Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

quesma.com

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Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#541
Dual AMD Radeon AI Pro 9700s (600 watts total 64GB of vram) runs Qwen 3.6 27B at FP8 with mtp on vLLM at 50ish TPS for decode. Cards cost $1300 a piece. Enough KV cache to fully max out two concurrent sessions.

It was super rough going to get started with them back in January, but right now the cards purrrr and I haven't even tried tuning yet. You need to use a patched vLLM image with aiter but besides that things are finally working on the ROCm front.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#542
post #50

The article is based on running Qwen 3.6 on a 128GB MacBook Pro. For reference, a 128GB MBP currently starts at $6699 USD [0] Some people will be happy to pay that premium for privacy, but at roughly 10X the cost of a MacBook Neo, that money could also buy a lot of credits on OpenRouter or frontier labs. [0]: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/14-inch-space...

The maths there is pretty undeniable, but it is not where I'd make the split. Having a machine that can run some modest local LLMs, like the Gemma 4 12B, is really worth it. I don't know how much serious hands-free agentic coding I will ever do on my MacBook alone, but I do know that I would not have got so far into understanding this without tinkering with local models, llama.cpp, LM Studio, and LM Studio and all th…

It's also great to have capability to run local models for more brute force tasks. Because you can change the system prompt, you can get local LLMs to do all kinds of high volume tasks without burning through tokens on a hosted model.

Just one example, I needed a bunch of images tagged and organised, with a local vision capable model I could pretty easily set that up and leave it running overnight.

I already had the GPU and memory for gaming, so it was at no cost for me to start running local models. But I feel the long term writing is on the wall, local models will only make more and more sense as they get better and more efficient.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#543

I love my MacBook Pro M5 128GB RAM and I love qwen3.6. BUT DO NOT buy this MacBook if you plan on doing serious coding using local LLMs with it. The reason is simple: your fingers will burn and your head will explode from the noise. Running any kind of sophisticated job on the very laptop you are using is just not viable. Sure you can use it in clamshell mode, but forget touching it while working with AI coding or ag…

I wonder if that's why there is such a good selection of 128gb M5 MBP's on the Apple Certified Refurbished store lol https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/refurbished/mac/macbook-pro-12...

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#544

It's fun to run a model locally, but I don't think the economics make sense for anyone just trying to use models atm. It's absurdly cheap to use the same model via openrouter in comparison. Seriously, just put $10 into openrouter and play with models that are cheap but bigger than what you'd reasonably be able to run locally like deepseek v4 flash (unquantized). You'll be surprised by how far that $10 goes for a mode…

If you're not good at prompting yet, that $10 doesn't go very far. The local model allows me to learn what works and what doesn't without paying for tokens. Then when I know how not to waste them, I'll try a paid model.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#545

I love my MacBook Pro M5 128GB RAM and I love qwen3.6. BUT DO NOT buy this MacBook if you plan on doing serious coding using local LLMs with it. The reason is simple: your fingers will burn and your head will explode from the noise. Running any kind of sophisticated job on the very laptop you are using is just not viable. Sure you can use it in clamshell mode, but forget touching it while working with AI coding or ag…

It's okay, completely wrong thread for this statement, but I wouldn't voluntarily use current MacOS (no idea if the older variants weren't terrible) over anything but ssh. Worse than Windows 11.

"macOS" (or however they spell it now) is pretty bad, but I'm not sure it's possible Apple could ever possibly produce an OS as bad as Windows 11 lol, it's really surprising to me to see someone suggest it's somehow actually worse?! How many times has an Apple OS wiped your hard drive or otherwise been completely borked from a forced update? I know multiple people personally who have experienced this with Windows 10/11, not once with a Mac. Just that alone is like the end of the argument for me, ignoring all the shockingly brutal UI problems.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#546
My partner has been trying various models on our server but we haven't gotten anything to run at a usable speed. Q30H engineering sample (Xeon 8570) with two cpus, 56 cores per CPU, 768GB DDR5 RAM running at 5600MHz, two old 3090s in it at the moment with an NVLink and we could put our third in there. We built this server before the prices skyrocketed because we happened across some Tyan boards on Woot that were absurdly cheap for what they are (the motherboards should be $1000+ but we got them for a few hundred).

This thing sounds like it should be a monster but we keep running into issues of the old GPU architecture, lack of support for AMX or AMX not being as big of a help as you'd hope when it does work, etc. Apparently we only got 5 tokens per second trying to set up Qwen 3.6 27B, and a similarly bad result trying to run GLM 5.2 which fits in memory but the custom kernels we had to try to contrive were too slow. I feel like this system should have tons of potential, especially if something was designed to let the AMX and huge system memory shine.

Does anyone have any suggestions? This thing was fun to set up and it's really cool but it's been a bit disappointing not getting any big tangible results so far.

We have a similar system on a single-cpu Tyan board with 256GB RAM that I'm hoping we might be able to use in conjunction with the first one if EXO ever gets good Linux support for GPU/RDMA over InfiniBand.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#547
post #353
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the new upcoming AMD AI ryzen halo desktop be a better value offer? or dgx spark? You would have to get a third party reseller/scalper or refurbished mac mini to get 64gb of ram ever since apple stopped selling it.

My 2c: you don't need the Strix Halo desktop, the chip comes in many rigs, most of them cheaper, the performance difference isn't worth it. It used to be half the price of a DGX Spark or a Mac with 128GB RAM. If you can still find it at that price I'd say it's the best bang for your buck. Otherwise, Macs have 2-3x the memory bandwidth of the DGX Spark, depending on the chip, so I'd prefer them. Unless you're planning…

Thoughts on a M5 Ultra 768GB if it drops? What's the price to make it worth it for you over a spark cluster?

I'm wanting to run Kimi 2.6/2.7 GGUF on it and just slap it in the server rack, but trying to decide if a spark cluster makes more sense.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to do coding with a local LLM your best bet is a 6 year old Nvidia 3090 which is substantially more powerful than the highest end overhyped Apple product for 1/5th the price.

My problem is I won't accept anything lower than the 96GB the RTX Pro 6000 Blackwell has. My dream is a workstation with 2x Pro 6000 to run DeepSeek v4 Flash comfortably, possibly qwen 3.6 / ornith on turbo speed. But man, I have never purchased a computer which is more expensive than a decent family car.

I had this dream too. My 2xDGX Sparks arrive in my reality on Monday.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#549

I love my MacBook Pro M5 128GB RAM and I love qwen3.6. BUT DO NOT buy this MacBook if you plan on doing serious coding using local LLMs with it. The reason is simple: your fingers will burn and your head will explode from the noise. Running any kind of sophisticated job on the very laptop you are using is just not viable. Sure you can use it in clamshell mode, but forget touching it while working with AI coding or ag…

Or just buy an R9700 and put it in the basement?

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#550

FWIW I'm running gemma4 31b on my 5090 and it's pretty great as well. QAT, MTP, 128k context. I liked Qwen 3.6 27b too, it just seems that Gemma4 is a bit underrated.

I can't Gemma4 to actually finish a turn properly, it's always ending abruptly or making malformed tool calls. It's probably something I've misconfigured in oMLX or Opencode.

possibly a problem with the chat template

https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-4-31B-it/discussions/118

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