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Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

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Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#71

Post by dghlsakjg »

krupan wrote: post #53

Wow, it feels like nobody read the article. Findings: - high blood pressure leads to a lot of deaths - people that spend more time in the sun have lower blood pressure - skin cancer is caused by sun exposure, but it kills far, far less people than high blood pressure - people that spend more time in the sun have a lower rate of dying from skin cancer than people who spend less time in the sun! Summary: more sun expos…

Sigh.

Correlation != causation

It could be that people that spend more time in the sun are busy getting exercise. Which lowers blood pressure.

It could be that people that spend a lot of time in the sun know that they have skin damage, and are more likely to detect melanomas due to more frequent checks of their damaged skin.

Summary: More sun exposure may or may not lead to lower risk of death on two fronts. It seems far more likely that getting exercise and frequent melanoma checks lead to better outcomes, and both of those are correlated with being in the sun, but by no means necessary to the outcome.

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#72

Post by boxed »

krupan wrote: post #53

Wow, it feels like nobody read the article. Findings: - high blood pressure leads to a lot of deaths - people that spend more time in the sun have lower blood pressure - skin cancer is caused by sun exposure, but it kills far, far less people than high blood pressure - people that spend more time in the sun have a lower rate of dying from skin cancer than people who spend less time in the sun! Summary: more sun expos…

That logic is extremely broken. People who spend more time outside do so because of more physical activity. The sun exposure is a side effect. Drawing the conclusion that sun exposure is therefore safe is just totally bonkers.

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#73

Post by jodrellblank »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #52
Zenbit_UX wrote: post #10

The article seems to be a meta analysis of a bunch of conflicting research to support a narrative that we don’t really know shit. And fair, we don’t. But a couple of things we do know that weren’t covered - egregiously so - is that aging is UV damage. Sometimes called photoaging, wrinkles, sun spots, discoloration, fine lines, grey hair, all of that shit that you associate with someone visibly looking old is sun dama…

I often embarrass my daughter when she has some new friend over. If the topic comes up, I give a demonstration. I'm 62 and I've never tried to get a tan and work indoors, and I haven't had a serious sunburn in close to 40 years. On the other hand, I lived spent the last 20 years in Austin, TX. I mow the yard and I ride a bike and in the summer months I put on sunblock before doing the bike rides an sometimes mowing.…

Photo claiming to be a 92 year old woman who used suncream on her face, but not her neck, for 40 years:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ITlo7TAy_Hs/maxresdefault.jpg

(She also appears to have Frank's Sign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank%27s_sign )

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#74

Post by dghlsakjg »

Rendello wrote: post #48
asdff wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pro golfers look a good 10-20 years older than their real age sometimes fwiw. In contrast to most other pro athletes in indoor disciplines who generally look better than their age. There's also examples of truckers who spent most of their career with the window rolled down and you can tell straight up what side of the road they drove on.

I first took sun exposure seriously after backpacking and spending time with other young travellers in hostels. It was apparent who spent their time exposed to the sun, I remember a girl my age who was in the middle of a multi-year cycle tour, and although I envied her journey, her skin looked quite rough. I decided that if I ended up doing that, I'd get one of those cycle helmet brim visors and would probably just c…

I used to work on boats in the Caribbean.

After my first few months there I realized that the people who didn't look like an old leather bag wore long sleeve shirts and big hats pretty much constantly.

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#75

Post by jshier »

krupan wrote: post #53

Wow, it feels like nobody read the article. Findings: - high blood pressure leads to a lot of deaths - people that spend more time in the sun have lower blood pressure - skin cancer is caused by sun exposure, but it kills far, far less people than high blood pressure - people that spend more time in the sun have a lower rate of dying from skin cancer than people who spend less time in the sun! Summary: more sun expos…

Or active people spend more time outside and have a lower rate of heart disease, regardless of whether the sun is shining.

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#76

Post by wil421 »

mreid wrote: post #65
Arubis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denver, CO, USA resident here -- this looks _super_ useful and I'm likely to start using it heavily. Our weather here is usually very outside-encouraging (if getting hotter over the years) and our UV is _ridiculous_; I see the index hit 11 and 12 with some regularity. Thanks for the link!

laughs in Australian https://www.bom.gov.au/climate/maps/averages/uv-index/?perio...

The map isn’t too far off for July[1] considering how far Australia is from the Equator[2].

My area is similar to Sydney in your map. For Denver it’s the elevation that’s exposing them to more UV rays.

[1]https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/sun-safety-monthly-average-uv-...

[2]https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/cd1t54/relative_la...

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#77

Post by ahmadalli »

jondcallahan wrote: post #36

I made a small little web app calculator for myself and my family to figure out how long we could stay outside without needing sunscreen based on current UV and skin type. I use it daily in the summer and a couple thousand people use it every month also. You can check it out at https://sunburntimer.com . It's also free and open source software, github link in footer.

Awesome project! I wanted its Home Assistant equavelant and there's an official integration for it: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/openuv/

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#78

Post by aranelsurion »

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #10

The article seems to be a meta analysis of a bunch of conflicting research to support a narrative that we don’t really know shit. And fair, we don’t. But a couple of things we do know that weren’t covered - egregiously so - is that aging is UV damage. Sometimes called photoaging, wrinkles, sun spots, discoloration, fine lines, grey hair, all of that shit that you associate with someone visibly looking old is sun dama…

> kurgezadt

I suffered with German too, in fact, still do :)

As a trivia: "kurz gesagt" -> kurz: short, gesagt: said. "sagen" is the verb "to say", "ge"+"t" is to form the past participle. (but not always :)

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#79

Post by cush »

jshier wrote: post #75
krupan wrote: post #53

Wow, it feels like nobody read the article. Findings: - high blood pressure leads to a lot of deaths - people that spend more time in the sun have lower blood pressure - skin cancer is caused by sun exposure, but it kills far, far less people than high blood pressure - people that spend more time in the sun have a lower rate of dying from skin cancer than people who spend less time in the sun! Summary: more sun expos…

Or active people spend more time outside and have a lower rate of heart disease, regardless of whether the sun is shining.

That’s not what the article said though. It had nothing to do with physical activity. Ironic considering the comment you replied to

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#80

Post by DuckConference »

Cider9986 wrote: post #32

Do we really have to reapply every 2 hours?

Yes. Most modern sunscreens are photostable, but even if you aren't going in water or sweating, just moving around (and thus scrunching and un-scrunching your skin on a micro level over and over again) is enough to mess up the sunscreen layer you put on your skin.
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