Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

nonogra.ph

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

601–610 of 663 posts

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#601

Post by zrn900 »

chrisjj wrote: post #441
zrn900 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note that age verification does not rely on you handing over identifying information to the party requesting it It most certainly does, because it has to: https://reclaimthenet.org/starmers-social-media-ban-surveill... "Monday’s headline was a ban on under-16s using social media which, to some, sounds about as sinister as a wholesome ribbon-cutting until you ask the obvious question nobody in Downing Street wants a…

That's not a requirement to hand over identifying information to the party requesting it .

In certain jurisdictions, yet. Yet is the operative word, leaving aside how it readily gives the authorities the ability to directly pinpoint and persecute you with a court order.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#602

Post by dopidopHN2 »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #591
dopidopHN2 wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are cute. I'm part of org working with ACLU, EFF and actual more important and active orgs that would would not know about. When I go to city council, its with 50 other peoples and 4 or 5 other speakers. Its when we need to have our representative on the record. Me and other folks in that loose network of org have forced our city to pass regulations, have our police force admit they use surveillance without overs…

You're cute too. So you accomplished all these things and yet the country is broken? I'm confused. Did you not get everything you wanted fast enough? How sad :(

It's my hobby! some people like 3d printing or trolling on the internet.

I like to prevent my city council to implement more surveillance and expose how cosy they are with the companies selling said surveillance.

>So you accomplished all these things and yet the country is broken

Yes. Those things are meaningless in the face of 3 letter agency capability or broad stroke regulation like FISA (recent big win by the folks at RT4 there, normies have not heard of it but those people did a great job at influencing republican politician )

> Did you not get everything you wanted fast enough? How sad :(

I mostly want privacy, for myself and the people who seek it.

I don't find that too much to ask in a country that is fast to point the finger at China "dystopian level of surveillance"

10 years is a sizeable slice of life. Their was some progress and wins. And those days the zeitgeist is on our side.

But its sad yes.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#603

Post by pc86 »

wartywhoa23 wrote: post #516
hvs wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Patriot Act is perfect example of the adage, "Never let a crisis go to waste."

Or rather "Always construct crises proportionate to the desired delta of the current Overton window's position".

Ah yes, that old adage :)

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#604

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

dopidopHN2 wrote: post #602
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're cute too. So you accomplished all these things and yet the country is broken? I'm confused. Did you not get everything you wanted fast enough? How sad :(

It's my hobby! some people like 3d printing or trolling on the internet. I like to prevent my city council to implement more surveillance and expose how cosy they are with the companies selling said surveillance. >So you accomplished all these things and yet the country is broken Yes. Those things are meaningless in the face of 3 letter agency capability or broad stroke regulation like FISA (recent big win by the fol…

If Men were angels, no government would be necessary.

Sadness is part of life. I actually respect the work you do, your own obvious condescension aside ("normies" and so forth). I guess we can allow it given this is probably a typical attitude of those who are deeply enmeshed in these issues while others just go on about their lives.

I simply ask you to consider the counterfactual to your original articulation in this thread.

If one or a handful of people showing up could simply change the law or the prevailing order by the force of their minority stamina alone that would not be a desirable society, now would it? As someone who has been to more than a few city council meetings you have surely encountered some of these people. In your case, I would too wish the path was easier. But if you could get everything you wanted right away then doing so would open the door to any crackpot. There is normative value in making change hard, even if in specific cases, this comes across as cruelty, corruption, and so forth. We could do a lot worse. Government in large part exists because people favor corruption over bloodshed. Are you any different? What is today your hobby was something some ancestor of yours doubtlessly lost their lives over. It is fine to be a little demoralized now and again, but let us not spread the gospel of the needlessly catastrophic. Such an outlook is highly disrespectful to the reality of our collective situation and our history.

If you have an alternative formulation to govern man, which is somehow neither resistant to your own ideas, nor any opposition of your neighbors, please describe it.

Until then:

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time...

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#605

Post by forlorn_mammoth »

caseysoftware wrote: post #406
onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

> "If we taught systems thinking in schools" In the US, the public school system can barely teach basic reading and math. And the teachers don't appear to understand 2nd or 3rd order thinking themselves so therefore are unlikely to be able to teach it. Teaching systems thinking may be an effective solution but it needs an effective delivery system to test it.

Alas, the teachers are typically pretty hampered by policies they cannot control.

They are not the thing to blame. It's system thinking all the way down.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#608

Post by abecedarius »

unethical_ban wrote: post #544
abecedarius wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasingly wishing for this from a fictional constitutional convention: > I note one proposal to make this Congress a two-house body. Excellent — the more impediments to legislation the better. But, instead of following tradition, I suggest one house of legislators, another whose single duty is to repeal laws . Let the legislators pass laws only with a two-thirds majority... while the repealers are able to cancel a…

I love that book, and its teachings of cell structures for decentralized rebellion. But it is a libertarian fantasy. And we've seen in the US, particularly due to the voting-system-imposed two party cap, that bad faith actors will sabotage good government as a goal in itself. I'm not confident that we need to make it even harder to pass laws in the US. We need to have voting reform in the country to allow a real free…

Really I'm not married to that proposal, I agree some voting reforms like approval voting should help, and I don't think any formal changes are enough on their own to get our political culture out of the current pit. What I like about this idea is bringing attention to the repeal problem as worth attention and imagination. Achieving a setup with some powerful people with a career interest in simplifying the infinite codebase.

> libertarian fantasy

You can see it that way... though the Prof was not expecting uptake for those proposals, he didn't get them, and the protagonist at the end is thinking of emigrating to the Belt. The U.S. was a libertarian fantasy before its founding.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#609

Post by dopidopHN2 »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #604
dopidopHN2 wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my hobby! some people like 3d printing or trolling on the internet. I like to prevent my city council to implement more surveillance and expose how cosy they are with the companies selling said surveillance. >So you accomplished all these things and yet the country is broken Yes. Those things are meaningless in the face of 3 letter agency capability or broad stroke regulation like FISA (recent big win by the fol…

If Men were angels, no government would be necessary. Sadness is part of life. I actually respect the work you do, your own obvious condescension aside ("normies" and so forth). I guess we can allow it given this is probably a typical attitude of those who are deeply enmeshed in these issues while others just go on about their lives. I simply ask you to consider the counterfactual to your original articulation in thi…

Oh,there is a constitutional basis to what we're doing. The 4th amendment regulate searches and seizure.

I would like the government bodies that have to follow the constitution to respect that.

When Flock track movement at scale, when skydio film with uncanny accuracy, when Leonardo build a unique id from your devices. This is infringement. ( See : kyllo vs USA )

I'm playing by the rules of democracy here. And yet you want to explain to me that democracy is hard and compromise frustrating.

Yes, I know! And I'm not asking for another system. I'm asking for accountably, transparency in decision, and actual representation of the voters.

--

I've talk a lot. Do you think there is a problem in 2026 with local laws enforcement buying military grade surveillance services from private company without oversight ?

Or is it normal ? Maybe I should just chill and pick another hobby. Who care after all? Our leaders know better, I should trust them, their will be no abuse! Not here.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#610

Post by bigbuppo »

btbuildem wrote: post #33

This is a reminder to curate and prune all your past social media contribution, because when this goes thru, you KNOW they will apply it retroactively. You'd loathe to lose your cushy job over a moment of lucid honesty back in 2011.

Facebook keeps backups.
Post reply on HN