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Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

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Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't buy the Mini or Studio. Both have the M4 which lacks the Neural Accelerators, making prompt processing ~3-4x slower.

I assume those don't just work automatically with an off-the-shelf gguf. What do you need in your local inference stack to take advantage of M5's neural accelerators?

They do work with llama.cpp and MLX automatically.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am considering getting something like NVIDIA's RTX Spark when it comes out, though even that will be limited to 128GB.

They’ll sell you a bundle, either a pair or a quartet so you can have 256 or 512GB over a 400GB/s network link I can’t figure out when it makes sense to pay 10k up front for a quantized Llama 3.1 but it’s an interesting option

Not Llama 3.1, but Step 3.7 Flash is one of the few new high quality models in this size bracket. DeepSeek v4 Flash too

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#413

The article is based on running Qwen 3.6 on a 128GB MacBook Pro. For reference, a 128GB MBP currently starts at $6699 USD [0] Some people will be happy to pay that premium for privacy, but at roughly 10X the cost of a MacBook Neo, that money could also buy a lot of credits on OpenRouter or frontier labs. [0]: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/14-inch-space...

I run Qwen 3.6 on my Framework Desktop 128GB, and it's very performant. I know Framework has had to raise the price since I preordered mine, but they're still well under half the cost of that Macbook.

There are several variants of Qwen 3.6, the MoE models are performant on Strix Halo, but the 27B dense model (the one spoken about in TFA, and generally regarded as the best of the group in terms of quality) is not so performant: https://kyuz0.github.io/amd-strix-halo-toolboxes/

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#414
post #333

I love my MacBook Pro M5 128GB RAM and I love qwen3.6. BUT DO NOT buy this MacBook if you plan on doing serious coding using local LLMs with it. The reason is simple: your fingers will burn and your head will explode from the noise. Running any kind of sophisticated job on the very laptop you are using is just not viable. Sure you can use it in clamshell mode, but forget touching it while working with AI coding or ag…

> The reason is simple: your fingers will burn and your head will explode from the noise. So, just buy a mac mini and put it in the other room? ( Like everyone was doing in February? :) I've been running coding agents on my laptop in yolo mode for the past half year or so (though mostly not local ones, laptop too slow!) and the way I'm doing that without terror is that I just gave them their own Linux user "agent". T…

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Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#415

I love my MacBook Pro M5 128GB RAM and I love qwen3.6. BUT DO NOT buy this MacBook if you plan on doing serious coding using local LLMs with it. The reason is simple: your fingers will burn and your head will explode from the noise. Running any kind of sophisticated job on the very laptop you are using is just not viable. Sure you can use it in clamshell mode, but forget touching it while working with AI coding or ag…

If you want to do coding with a local LLM your best bet is a 6 year old Nvidia 3090 which is substantially more powerful than the highest end overhyped Apple product for 1/5th the price.

32GB V100

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#416
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I would not argue against any of this. And I can't say that I won't switch to openrouter (even just for the same models) at some point. But one of the things I have found about my own process learning is that some lessons only come to you when you make yourself available to them. And if that means doing things the difficult way, that is what you should do.

Difficult... and wastefully expensive

People pay thousands for model trains, everyone needs a hobby.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#417
post #308

If I have 10k to spend, what should I buy for the best local model experience?

I really think giving it a year for the hardware market to come back to earth and spending a fraction of that for API access to the same models is a better use of the money.

Implicit in your answer is the belief that they will come back to earth. I wonder how realistic that belief is.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#418
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but I am a middle-aged bloke who is experiencing existential angst about whether I can carry on in this industry. I have a pretty deep, maybe paranoid need to be confident I have an intrinsic understanding, and I have found in my life that lessons come to you when you make yourself open to learning. So I need to build on top of what I know, taking as much of the hard way as I can bear to take at any one time —…

This really resonates with me, and I'm only a decade and change into my career. I use claude a lot day to day. I try to use it sensibly, making me more productive and produce better work. I'm also trying not to lose understanding along the way. I want to be able to actually talk to the conclusions I'm reaching. I have colleagues that seem perfectly content to delegate too much to the agents, and it saddens me. It fee…

You will not live enough to learn everything. Eventually you have to say "I could figure [something] out but I won't take that time." Most things are that way - I probably could learn brain surgery (I used this example because it has a reputation of being a very difficult course of study). I would like to make a lathe from scratch - but I don't have easy access to enough iron ore to get started - even if I start from scrap metal, I probably wouldn't spend months making my own surface plate (...) and so I own a factory made lathe instead.

That is why I'm content to delegate to agents - I have more code/features I want to write than I have time to debug (writing is the easy part).

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#419
post #20

None of the examples reflect 'real work', at least not what I'd consider real work. Being able to nail a zero-shot greenfield project is relatively easy even for a small model. There's not much context to build up and it can fall back to similar examples in the training data easily. So long as you're not asking it to invent something wholly new it'll probably manage. The real test is whether or not it can work with y…

There are several general types of tasks that a Gemma 4 12B class model works for me, including: 1) design a large project composed of small libraries that can be coded and tested in isolation. 2) clean up old coding projects: add README files, comment code, show an example of using a new API and have it update API use, etc.

All small-scale stuff. For large integrated projects I am finding DeepSeek v4 Pro commercial API to be very inexpensive and helps me produce good results.

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