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Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

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Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#211
post #20

None of the examples reflect 'real work', at least not what I'd consider real work. Being able to nail a zero-shot greenfield project is relatively easy even for a small model. There's not much context to build up and it can fall back to similar examples in the training data easily. So long as you're not asking it to invent something wholly new it'll probably manage. The real test is whether or not it can work with y…

> and it can fall back to similar examples in the training data easily.

This is an underrated consideration when evaluating the small models: The further you deviate from standard example code, the more their weaknesses show.

My experience is that Qwen3.6 produced some amazing results for a small model when I tried it with simple apps that are widely reproduced everywhere. If you want a React TODO app or to set up a little boilerplate app with shadcn and other popular tools, it will produce something that looks not too bad.

Then when I started straying outside of common tasks and into some of my more niche work, it would spin for hours and go in circles before finally producing some groan-inducing output that wasn't usable.

If you're looking for a model to help with simple refactoring or small tasks where you provide very explicit instructions for exactly what you want, but you don't want to do all of the typing yourself, they can do a lot of good work, though. But you're right that once you get into long context sessions involving topics off the beaten path, the weaknesses are very apparent.

The quantizations that are popular for making these models fit on smaller hardware make the problems worse. When you read it about online there is almost a consensus that 4-bit quants are lossless and that you can use q8_0/q8_0 kv cache quantization without any real loss, but in my experience with real projects there's a substantial degradation in long context performance with any of these quants.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#212

I love my MacBook Pro M5 128GB RAM and I love qwen3.6. BUT DO NOT buy this MacBook if you plan on doing serious coding using local LLMs with it. The reason is simple: your fingers will burn and your head will explode from the noise. Running any kind of sophisticated job on the very laptop you are using is just not viable. Sure you can use it in clamshell mode, but forget touching it while working with AI coding or ag…

Would the new upcoming AMD AI ryzen halo desktop be a better value offer? or dgx spark?

You would have to get a third party reseller/scalper or refurbished mac mini to get 64gb of ram ever since apple stopped selling it.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model they reference can be easily run with 24gb+ of VRAM, and there are other similar models capable of running easily on 16gb of VRAM. It's not like 128gb is a requirement here.

a computer with 24 GB VRAM is at least $3000

A 7900 XTX is about $850, and the rest of the computer basically just needs to boot Linux. You could easily build such a machine for $1500.

Even that isn't strictly necessary - you can get perfectly acceptable performance by splitting a model between multiple older 12 or 16 GB cards.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#214
post #20

None of the examples reflect 'real work', at least not what I'd consider real work. Being able to nail a zero-shot greenfield project is relatively easy even for a small model. There's not much context to build up and it can fall back to similar examples in the training data easily. So long as you're not asking it to invent something wholly new it'll probably manage. The real test is whether or not it can work with y…

> Being able to nail a zero-shot greenfield project is relatively easy even for a small model Not really germane to your comment but I hope I don’t sound old when I say I remember a time when spinning up a PoC was a week of work, and a statement like yours was pure science fiction.

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Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#215

I feel like I'm going insane seeing people buy these 128gb MBP for thousands of dollars to run models that are objectively much worse than SOTA and spending so much more. The amount spent on a 128gb M5 MAX can buy you a damned new car here. What the hell am I missing? Are developers in other countries living in such different worlds? (I'm aware the price is, in absolute terms, more expensive where I live compared to…

I also don't understand why people in this price bracket are buying Mac laptops instead of desktop computers with GPUs? Just to flex that it's portable?

Yeah, it's a much better idea to buy many used 3090s. 4090s or 5090s if you can afford it. Way faster.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#216

I love my MacBook Pro M5 128GB RAM and I love qwen3.6. BUT DO NOT buy this MacBook if you plan on doing serious coding using local LLMs with it. The reason is simple: your fingers will burn and your head will explode from the noise. Running any kind of sophisticated job on the very laptop you are using is just not viable. Sure you can use it in clamshell mode, but forget touching it while working with AI coding or ag…

I am considering getting something like NVIDIA's RTX Spark when it comes out, though even that will be limited to 128GB.

It's out, I'm daily driving one. It's great

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#217
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key word there is 'currently'.

Economies of scale are a fact of nature and aren’t going to be subverted in the future by even the most advanced local models

Which is of course why, if you want to render 3d scenes to play a video game, you have to rent time on a mainframe system. I don’t see that changing ever - it’s just economies of scale!

(sarcasm, btw)

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#218
Running LLMs locally for development doesn’t make sense to me. The hardware gets outdated in just a few years. Even hyperscalers replace their GPUs faster than they can buy them, plus the cost of running it locally, isn’t cheap. the cost saving just ain't there.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#219
post #50

The article is based on running Qwen 3.6 on a 128GB MacBook Pro. For reference, a 128GB MBP currently starts at $6699 USD [0] Some people will be happy to pay that premium for privacy, but at roughly 10X the cost of a MacBook Neo, that money could also buy a lot of credits on OpenRouter or frontier labs. [0]: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/14-inch-space...

The maths there is pretty undeniable, but it is not where I'd make the split. Having a machine that can run some modest local LLMs, like the Gemma 4 12B, is really worth it. I don't know how much serious hands-free agentic coding I will ever do on my MacBook alone, but I do know that I would not have got so far into understanding this without tinkering with local models, llama.cpp, LM Studio, and LM Studio and all th…

Honestly your best bet is to buy a $20 Claude subscription, ask Claude to set it all up with Pi and llama.cpp and come back in 20 minutes after a cup of coffee. This is also a good idea because it will help set expectations of what a local model can do vs. a frontier model.

Re: Qwen 3.6 27B is the sweet spot for local development

#220
post #49
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memory requirements of newer models will increase, so while the hardware may last 10 years it won't be able to run the latest models for 10 years.

It can't run the latest models today - GLM-5.2 class models already need 1TB+ of RAM. ... but, the models that WILL run on 128GB (or 64GB or even 32GB) models today are a huge improvement on the best models that would run in the same amount of memory six months ago.

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