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In San Francisco, even $180k tech salaries are no longer enough

nytimes.com

41–50 of 194 posts

Re: In San Francisco, even $180k tech salaries are no longer enough

#41
post #9

As an AI startup founder, my impression is that $180k in the Bay Area mostly gets you new grads or relatively junior talent these days. However, remote work has fundamentally changed the equation. Expanding hiring beyond the Bay Area, or even internationally (for example, hiring remotely from Canada), can dramatically broaden the talent pool while significantly reducing costs.

[deleted]

Re: In San Francisco, even $180k tech salaries are no longer enough

#43
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no easy answer, but the only viable solution is building a lot more dense housing and public transit for said urbanism What about fewer people with the same amount of housing stock? I'm not even arguing that this is the better solution, but I don't even see people entertain it for the purposes of arguing against it.

I bring it up with some people. To do this you need to either accept: - the area becomes an enclave for the wealthy with a high unhoused population, where most youth have to move away. People say they don't want this, I’m not sure they are being honest. - the government regulates internal migration. You need a permit to move from the Midwest to California.

> the area becomes an enclave for the wealthy with a high unhoused population, where most youth have to move away.

Yeah, that's already happened. SF is the US city with the least amount of children, where schools have to close due to declining enrollment.

Re: In San Francisco, even $180k tech salaries are no longer enough

#44
post #2

Everyone I know is griping about the cost of living. There is no easy answer, but the only viable solution is building a lot more dense housing and public transit for said urbanism. Housing being this expensive is a choice. The economy and our society would be much healthier if we decided making sure there was ample housing in high demand areas. We've conflated having a home with a financial asset. We can't have plen…

If SF wants to be New York of the East, let them be so.

Everyone else can move literally anywhere else in the country, which is big.

Re: In San Francisco, even $180k tech salaries are no longer enough

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no easy answer, but the only viable solution is building a lot more dense housing and public transit for said urbanism What about fewer people with the same amount of housing stock? I'm not even arguing that this is the better solution, but I don't even see people entertain it for the purposes of arguing against it.

> I don't even see people entertain it for the purposes of arguing against it. Luckily, we have several recent real-life examples demonstrating why “fewer people” is not a viable solution: Because you either need to forcibly remove people, which involves an army of stormtroopers kidnapping people off the street and killing innocent people in the process, or you have to control pregnancy and childbirth, involving a le…

> Because you either need to forcibly remove people, which involves an army of stormtroopers kidnapping people off the street and killing innocent people in the process, or you have to control pregnancy and childbirth

I don't think this is true at all.

Birthrates are already declining. All you have to do is give proper sex ed and easy access to birth control and populations will shrink on their own. You don't even have to begin propaganda around overpopulation, though we may need to tone down the "WE NEED MORE BABIES" propaganda that the right is currently projecting.

The fact is, there are a lot of people (18-29% of non-parent adults in the USA, depending on your source) that don't want children. Give them the tools to make sure accidents don't happen (IMO, vasectomies would be more popular if there weren't so many myths surrounding them), and birthrates will decline naturally.

Re: In San Francisco, even $180k tech salaries are no longer enough

#47
The article frames the cost of living issue mainly in terms of demand (...because of OpenAI and Anthropic...), which is an important factor, but has very little to say about supply. San Francisco is a major metropolis that looks like a mining town: there's very few high-rise buildings compared to other major cities. It's due to many factors including strict zoning, growth caps, seismic risks (compared to say Tokyo?) and landlords that don't have much incentive to decrease the value of their skyrocketing assets.

Also some recent setbacks like our leaning Millennium Tower.

It might take a political earthquake to change the status quo given how ossified everything is unfortunately.

Re: In San Francisco, even $180k tech salaries are no longer enough

#48
post #9

As an AI startup founder, my impression is that $180k in the Bay Area mostly gets you new grads or relatively junior talent these days. However, remote work has fundamentally changed the equation. Expanding hiring beyond the Bay Area, or even internationally (for example, hiring remotely from Canada), can dramatically broaden the talent pool while significantly reducing costs.

[deleted]

Re: In San Francisco, even $180k tech salaries are no longer enough

#49

I don't understand how $180k was enough in San Francisco at any time in the last 15 years -- unless you were partnered with someone with a comparable salary.

It was enough for a single person in a good studio or middling 1BR with no kids, probably no car, and no desire to own property.

At some point the idea of working for $AI in SF just to enrich landlords and have a lifestyle that (at least materialistically) is greatly outclassed by some rural cashier at Walmart (3 bedroom house, family, car) needs to be thought about.

Re: In San Francisco, even $180k tech salaries are no longer enough

#50

I don't understand how $180k was enough in San Francisco at any time in the last 15 years -- unless you were partnered with someone with a comparable salary.

I was single, living alone (+ 2 cats, if they count) in a one bedroom apartment in North Beach 15 years ago on a $90k/year salary. I even had a parking space and a car!

I can understand how people did it then - I was one of them - but I don't understand how they would do it now.

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