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Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

nonogra.ph

481–490 of 663 posts

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#481
post #338
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, the evidence is that people already pretty firmly against things like chat control and the will to push it through tends to come from the political circles more than popular belief it is a good idea. I expect that if the measure itself went to a general vote, the majority would be against it once they have to deal with a specific proposal. It takes repeated pushes by the authoritarians looking for an opp…

The problem is that "the authoritarians" (read: almost every politician at every level of government, but a drastically increasing percentage the higher you go) only need to get something passed once then it is there forever. Every law should have an automatic sunset period of 1-10 years that requires it to pass the entire legislative process again, or at least both full chambers + signing.

Increasingly wishing for this from a fictional constitutional convention:

> I note one proposal to make this Congress a two-house body. Excellent — the more impediments to legislation the better. But, instead of following tradition, I suggest one house of legislators, another whose single duty is to repeal laws. Let the legislators pass laws only with a two-thirds majority... while the repealers are able to cancel any law through a mere one-third minority. Preposterous? Think about it. If a bill is so poor that it cannot command two-thirds of your consents, is it not likely that it would make a poor law? And if a law is disliked by as many as one-third is it not likely that you would be better off without it?

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Moon_Is_a_Harsh_Mistress

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#482
post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually quite a few people care about the UK having a king, in the UK. In Northern Ireland, there is a considerable republican (small "r" population) for political reasons. The BBC promotes the monarchy heavily as it is under royal charter. There were significant protests at the Queen's funeral cortege and the current king's coronation. The state clamped down hard, in one case arresting someone for holding up a blan…

I admit UK wasn't the best example as now it's freedom of speech is maybe worse than in Russia or China. But I feel like public does not trat it as the biggest issue of the UK at the moment. Let's say Denmark for example.

Thing is that freedom of speech was not good back when I was growing up. There were many groups that were heavily monitored by Special Branch. Some of this has been declassified now. I do not wish to downplay the atrocities of the IRA, but there certainly was another side to the Troubles which the BBC wouldn't report on fairly and tried to claim it was an internal religious conflict.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For being five seconds over? Not even minutes.

He was asked due to his actions he took after he was told to stop. If he had just stopped talking after being told his time was up he would not have been asked to leave.

Five seconds is nothing. It's shorter than it took to type this message.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#484
post #338
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, the evidence is that people already pretty firmly against things like chat control and the will to push it through tends to come from the political circles more than popular belief it is a good idea. I expect that if the measure itself went to a general vote, the majority would be against it once they have to deal with a specific proposal. It takes repeated pushes by the authoritarians looking for an opp…

The problem is that "the authoritarians" (read: almost every politician at every level of government, but a drastically increasing percentage the higher you go) only need to get something passed once then it is there forever. Every law should have an automatic sunset period of 1-10 years that requires it to pass the entire legislative process again, or at least both full chambers + signing.

  > Every law should have an automatic sunset period of 1-10 years that requires it to pass the entire legislative process again, or at least both full chambers + signing.
Then you will have a lot of Constitution amendments. That's first.

The burden of ever-changing law landscape will be carried by ordinary people, not by legislators. That's second.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#485
post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

> "If we taught systems thinking in schools" In the US, the public school system can barely teach basic reading and math. And the teachers don't appear to understand 2nd or 3rd order thinking themselves so therefore are unlikely to be able to teach it. Teaching systems thinking may be an effective solution but it needs an effective delivery system to test it.

Have you talked to any high school students or teachers lately? The ones I have (via my kids) are all articulate, thoughtful, and kind. It gives me a lot of hope for the future.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#486
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that "the authoritarians" (read: almost every politician at every level of government, but a drastically increasing percentage the higher you go) only need to get something passed once then it is there forever. Every law should have an automatic sunset period of 1-10 years that requires it to pass the entire legislative process again, or at least both full chambers + signing.

Increasingly wishing for this from a fictional constitutional convention: > I note one proposal to make this Congress a two-house body. Excellent — the more impediments to legislation the better. But, instead of following tradition, I suggest one house of legislators, another whose single duty is to repeal laws . Let the legislators pass laws only with a two-thirds majority... while the repealers are able to cancel a…

Add money to politics - more accurately add even more money to politics - and see how this works out.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#487

I'm honestly amazed that people are only just figuring this out. I know that reads like I'm being snarky, but I'm not trying to be. Within the last decade in the UK we have had (among others): - the 2016 Snoopers' Charter - the 2022 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act - the 2023 Public Order Act - the 2023 Online Safety Act - the 2024 Addendum to the 2016 Snoopers' Charter Couple that with the whole push to repe…

Britain doesn't need a European court to grant human rights to its own citizens. You know that the human rights act is not preventing government crackdowns on speech and privacy, and you will also know that the intention is to replace it with a human rights bill of our own.

The current act is being used by lawyers and judges to force migration on a country which never voted for it.

Now would we trust the clearly compromised political class we currently have to implement it? Probably not.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you acknowledge that for many people and practically e2ee and crime are connected? e2ee is a very useful tool for crime and combined with crypto useful tool for monetizing crime. Criminals used to speak in code, meet clandestine, use burner phones and websites were easy to shut down. Now they don't need to. The solution to privacy problem is not to shout while closing your ears but to make it clear that you see th…

I think the below comments answer rather well for me. But of course you are rigth that criminals use technology... I just don't see it as the main issue here. I think that most common currency for criminals are still just cold cash... But maybe some use crypto yes. And maybe criminals use e2ee. And Marybe you are rigth that it is a problematic thing for law enforcement. That is not the point though. The point is crim…

> I think that most common currency for criminals are still just cold cash

It doesn't scale as well. Can't go cross-border easily etc.

I agree that it's wrong but I'm talking about common people (and lawmakers who care about) perception. Until they get burned they won't care and might not take your side like that.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you acknowledge that for many people and practically e2ee and crime are connected? e2ee is a very useful tool for crime and combined with crypto useful tool for monetizing crime. Criminals used to speak in code, meet clandestine, use burner phones and websites were easy to shut down. Now they don't need to. The solution to privacy problem is not to shout while closing your ears but to make it clear that you see th…

>Criminals used to speak in code, meet clandestine, use burner phones and websites were easy to shut down. And none of these things were ever made illegal. >Ordinary people do not care about e2ee. I am an ordinary person, and I care about the right to be secure and private in my communications. The founders of the United States put it in our Bill of Rights. Mail in America can't just be read without a warrant; it is…

> And none of these things were ever made illegal.

Those things are barriers that make it more difficult to be criminal. We're talking about a factor that removes those barriers and makes it easier.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#490
I thought they were gonna wait until internet is flooded with AI content indistinguishable from human content, i.e. wait until people are begging for a "real human" badge which can only be enforced by ID. Instead they're forcing it early with the "but the children!" thing again.
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