Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech • Hacker News Board

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#441

Post by chrisjj » Mon, Jun 29, 2026, 1:54 PM UTC

zrn900 wrote: post #380

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #359

Note that age verification does not rely on you handing over identifying information to the party requesting it, that's just one possible implementation. Another more privacy conscious one is e.g. iDIN or whatever comes after, which works a bit like oauth in that you're redirected to a trusted 3rd party like your bank which only confirms "this person is 18+" to the requesting party. The only thing that the requester…

> Note that age verification does not rely on you handing over identifying information to the party requesting it It most certainly does, because it has to: https://reclaimthenet.org/starmers-social-media-ban-surveill... "Monday’s headline was a ban on under-16s using social media which, to some, sounds about as sinister as a wholesome ribbon-cutting until you ask the obvious question nobody in Downing Street wants a…

That's not a requirement to hand over identifying information to the party requesting it.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#442

Post by ipodopt » Mon, Jun 29, 2026, 1:55 PM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #427

> These "age verification" laws are - by design - identity attribution systems. They attribute digital identities (accounts) to physical identities (SSN, ID, etc.. No, they don't. The proposed EU verification system provides a proof of age to the service but no physical identity data. This is possibly a slippery slope, but I don't think it's correct to state the two things are equivalent.

Maybe not the laws, but the systems being built are attribute based.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#443

Post by riffraff » Mon, Jun 29, 2026, 1:56 PM UTC

stretchwithme wrote: post #44

Maybe it should be possible for a parent to set a child age in a device. Everyone else can stay anonymous. I look forward to hearing why that won't work and what problems it will cause.

If the server can trust the device, then you don't need the parent, you can use a digital-enabled id card or passport.

This is in fact the EU age verification app

https://commission.europa.eu/news-and-media/news/european-ag...

The concern here is the trust in the device appears to be tied to proprietary os/device vendors.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#444

Post by akoboldfrying » Mon, Jun 29, 2026, 1:58 PM UTC

Nevermark wrote: post #379

Age verification starts the gating of Internet access by governments. Any site, with any concern about age of user liability, is likely to adopt the practice. Strong laws, sold on their face value safety benefits, will increase that liability. You won’t see any laws removing or limiting that liability. The trend will be many more sites becoming government-gated, than we are imagining now. Beyond surveillance, it’s a…

I agree. But it's not clear to me that the downsides of this outweigh the upsides.

The government has control over many areas of life, and in most cases I feel that to be on balance a good thing, even though governments can be corrupt or inefficient.

Consider some other domain, like roads. In every country, the government issues licenses that include photographic ID to residents to drive on roads; driving without a license is illegal and can result in fines or even imprisonment. But this level of government control feels normal to people, and most would say the safety benefits outweigh the government interference.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#445

Post by nly » Mon, Jun 29, 2026, 2:01 PM UTC

stymaar wrote: post #290

nly wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah...I'm fully aware what a ZKP is..you're just missing the point.

Why did you write that then: > You then still need a trusted ID service or algorithm to capture an image of the user _at the time of use_ to compare that to. > Just having access to your digital ID credentials proves nothing

Because it's accurate?

If I have access to your digital ID I shouldn't be able to impersonate you anymore than I should be able to fly using your passport.

Your passport is useful not just because it's difficult to forge, but because border control is a thing.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#446

Post by account42 » Mon, Jun 29, 2026, 2:03 PM UTC

raffael_de wrote: post #323

iamflimflam1 wrote: post #38

This is already happening if you want to visit the US. Customs officers will look at your social media accounts to make sure you are compliant.

surveillance of foreigners (particularly) with residence in a different country is a different issue from surveillance of own citizens.

And the neat part is that you can have agreements within a group of countries (say about five) to have them surveil your citizens and share what they find with you while you do the same for them.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#447

Post by speff » Mon, Jun 29, 2026, 2:05 PM UTC

teiferer wrote: post #239

ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you acknowledge that for many people and practically e2ee and crime are connected? e2ee is a very useful tool for crime and combined with crypto useful tool for monetizing crime. Criminals used to speak in code, meet clandestine, use burner phones and websites were easy to shut down. Now they don't need to. The solution to privacy problem is not to shout while closing your ears but to make it clear that you see th…

> Ordinary people do not care about e2ee. Gotta read the room. It's a matter of phrasing things. Moxie had this illustrative take: If your chat is not e2ee, it'a a group chat. It's you, your mom, every secret service in the world and some ISP employees as well. If we could clarify to our social circles and broader society that every non-e2ee chat can be browsed by some overpaid freckled 20-something borded out of his…

I suspect a lot of people don't mind/care that the list is expanded to those groups. That's really a big part of the issue. It's better framing, regardless though.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#448

Post by MaKey » Mon, Jun 29, 2026, 2:09 PM UTC

intended wrote: post #382

ball_of_lint wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. You're framing this as some desirable thing that could be good except that a bad implementation erodes privacy. That's wrong at every step. These bills originate from big tech such as Meta that literally profit from collecting as much personal info from you as possible. https://old.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/1rsn1tm/it_a... But even beyond their tainted origins, you can't implement your…

That Reddit post is feeding more conspiracy thinking than helping. The facts listed also match the actions of a firm aiming to ensure that the burden of verification does not fall on it, for a legislative process that they know is coming. Red flag after red flag has been raised on child outcomes and social media, for a decade. The internet is great for people here on HN, who know enough to avoid getting screwed. The…

How did you come to the conclusion that advocating for privacy is at odds with protecting users? I'd argue the opposite is true.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#449

Post by Tangurena2 » Mon, Jun 29, 2026, 2:09 PM UTC

ludicrousdispla wrote: post #273

aucisson_masque wrote: post #119

If I say something illegal during a meeting, people will notice it and will report it to the police. Then I may get arrested or fined. Why should it be different on the internet ? Provided we live in countries where freedom of speech is enacted. Of course in Russia or china it's different but surely they already have tools like that.

How do you "say something illegal" ?

The Trump administration has been treating dissent as illegal speech/behavior. It would be reasonable to presume that a replacement administration will continue this treatment.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#450

Post by DrScientist » Mon, Jun 29, 2026, 2:09 PM UTC

friendzis wrote: post #428

DrScientist wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A consequence of democracy means average people get a vote. However average people are actually pretty good at making the right moral, common sense calls, if not the technical legal detail. I suspect that's in part because they are not living in the Westminister ( or whatever your seat of power is ) bubble. So any system needs to blend that common sense, with specific expertise. In theory that's what a representative…

> However average people are actually pretty good at making the right moral, common sense calls, if not the technical legal detail. I suspect that's in part because they are not living in the Westminister ( or whatever your seat of power is ) bubble. It's easy to make decisions when you are the benefactor and the costs are born by someone else. Unless you are in a country with overall population density approaching t…

> I'd argue that the fiefdoms within parties come primarily from their corporate likeness. Since the ultimate goal of any party is to capture power and remain in power, the structures that emerge serve this goal first, everything else second.

If this is true, which doesn't seem that unreasonable, then the crucial factor then becomes what are the key factors in terms of staying in power - responsiveness to the electorate or raising money to persuade the electorate?

Ensuring the latter doesn't take over, in my view, is a top priority to ensure a working democracy - and from the outside, appears to be why the American system is now largely broken.