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Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown
621–630 of 771 posts
Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown
#622When you're a student in a competitive program at a top university, graded on a curve, and you know your fellow classmates are cheating with AI, you have little choice but to do the same. Especially when jobs for new grads are harder to come by and there's more pressure to also go above and beyond with internships and side projects during your time in school. There's no way to compete without cheating.
I wonder if for certain fields, like finance, that itself would be a positive signal for the corporation that actually would prefer workers with quite flexible ethics and mores who are focused on "the bottom line"..
Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown
#623The last take-home test I did was for EE364a: Convex Optimization. It was a 24 hour test, and I had a cold. I booked a hotel room as my apartment didn't have air conditioning. It was brutal. I got most of the programming questions correct, but only a few of the proofs. The average of the class on this test (and most every other assignment) was 80%+. I got an A- overall in that class. Perhaps this class isn't too hard…
Is it really cheating if you work hard and memorize all the questions? That's basically learning.
right if i 'refactor' the question a bit so that it's peripheral, is that cheating?
Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown
#624Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is bullshit and basically this kind of justification is part of the moral and ethical rot of most institutions in the US now. You do have a choice, you just want to pretend you don't to get away with it. Besides, no one outside of a few stuffy finance/quant shops ever even asked what my GPA was in college, they don't care.
Haven't you heard if you don't get one of these jobs and get a tc of 500k+ you're destined to the permanent underclass. So cheating is the answer.
Technically, that has been the case. You are either in an economically booming area, or an economically declining area. Even for those in the booming areas, the kids have to compete with a much wider pool of talent to be able to buy land for themselves to stay there.
Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown
#625I was born in 1970. My teenage years were in the 1980s, in coincidence with the emergence of the home computer. I had a Timex-Sinclair 1000, then a C64, then a C128. One of my main forces that drove myself to learn computers was (besides games) the ability to produce text that was clearly written and readable, thanks to word processors and printers, because my handwriting was abysmal, and I got tired very quickly whi…
> I'm finding AI increasingly harder to like. That summarises pretty well the whole situation. AI is cool and all, but not worth it considering all the disadvantages
but we can put data centers in space bro
Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown
#626Earlier quoted context omitted.
Students aren’t optimizing for what is best for society. They are optimizing for themselves, which almost always means getting a job. The credential is a prerequisite but skills are a differentiator. Problem is, not all skills are equal. Amazon isn’t going to ask you about your opinions on The Illiad , they are going to check if you can write an efficient algorithm to rob houses or merge sorted linked lists.
> They are optimizing for themselves, which almost always means getting a job. Instead they should optimize for keeping a job. Since you mention Amazon, I work there as a senior software engineer (almost 10 years of tenure) and the quality of interns has massively degraded since LLMs are available. The result is that where the majority of interns used to receive return offers, now the vast majority doesn't. Similarly…
That is funny, because job hopping has been the recommended advice on this forum for 2 decades, especially job hopping away from Amazon to greener pastures.
Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown
#627Earlier quoted context omitted.
"best not to blame the students" There are dozens for every one who didn't get the opportunity to attend an Ivy. The penalty for cheating should be automatic expulsion. I'll note as a hiring manager the college degree won't be worth shit unless the school can show their students have any integrity.
> The penalty for cheating should be automatic expulsion. Historically, the penalty for cheating at Dartmouth was a 9-month suspension for a first offense (no matter how small, in theory), and permanent "separation from the college" for a second offense. Back in the 90s, there were multiple incidents where this wasn't properly applied to the CS department because the academic committees in charge of punishment were b…
My only contention is the word "quickly".
Employers past a certain scale are not really using degrees as anything other than a low pass filter, and the people judging how qualified hires were in practice are not the ones deciding the minimum requirements, so there's no avenue for feedback on that point.
Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown
#628Earlier quoted context omitted.
The grading cannot be automated easily and becomes time consuming.
Should anything more complicated than what could be automated with a paper ScanTron form really be subject to automated grading anyway?
Right? For all the money paid by modern students is it unreasonable to expect some expert human interaction? The cost explosion has been centered outside the classroom, elsewhere in the org, so can't play that card.
Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown
#629Earlier quoted context omitted.
My daughter just finished her Grade 11 finals in Canada. They were done on locked down school Chromebooks, which should be enough to prevent cheating by all but the most dedicated.
On my kids chrome books, the actual AI chatbot websites are blocked, but the kids just ask follow up questions to the AI response in a normal google search.
Google itself is a pretty good cheat mechanism, and was so even before they added AI. Not much of a lock down if you can Google something in a Geography exam. I'll have to ask my kids.
Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown
#630Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using a special computer works too. I do my exams with our institution's Computer-Based Testing Facility, a bank of computers with fixed software and firewall rules that only permit connections to the exam site. As a result, I've been able to challenge students to solve interactive software security challenges on the midterm and final with automatic grading - something that would have been impossible with pen and pap…
> firewall rules that only permit connections to the exam site. ... did LANs (Ethernet, with wifi disabled) stop being a thing?
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