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Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

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Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#361

Post by Cthulhu_ »

ranyume wrote: post #96
RachelF wrote: post #41

Age verification is just one part of this crackdown. Device attestation is another - making sure you're using an unmodified government approved operating system and apps linked to your ID.

AI mass surveillance is another. The powerful are just ceasing opportunities to accumulate power and capital, seeing that right now it is not good enough for them.

We already have the mass surveillance, but the scale alone has traditionally been the obstacle to do something with it. But, we've had affordable "big data" processing for 20 years or more now (considering Hadoop) so AI is more of a next or different step to draw conclusions out of data. And it's limited by token consumption / context size, unlike big data stuff.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#362

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Varelion wrote: post #349

Gonna repost this comment I made last week, as no one interacted with its core idea. I am torn. I have bore first-hand witness to the scale of the PsyOps war waged on the American people by institutions near and far. Artroturfing to sew division to one means of another. In all these operations, anonymity is what drives it. I was born and raised in the anonymous internet, and tasted its freedoms. I oppose censorship.…

Interesting point, as at one point large internet companies like Facebook and Google/Youtube made real names mandatory - Facebook going as far as asking your "friends" to rat on you.

In theory it was a great way to prevent abuse - are people still horrible on the internet if they use their real name? Turns out they are, because it only took a few years of internet for people to no longer have any shame.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#363

Post by loveiswork »

Varelion wrote: post #349

Gonna repost this comment I made last week, as no one interacted with its core idea. I am torn. I have bore first-hand witness to the scale of the PsyOps war waged on the American people by institutions near and far. Artroturfing to sew division to one means of another. In all these operations, anonymity is what drives it. I was born and raised in the anonymous internet, and tasted its freedoms. I oppose censorship.…

I think I agree, so long as:

- age/identity verification comes with banning of bot traffic posing as human in any communication platform, by law - end to end encrypted communication is declared a fundamental human right, by law

I don't think we'll see that though. Too much money / power left on the table.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#364

Post by derektank »

microgpt wrote: post #86
derektank wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not exactly sure how an abuse of power occurring at a public event relates to the question of privacy or freedom of speech. The law did not allow the officer to arrest the man for the content of his speech so he retaliated by enforcing a different law unjustly. This kind of selective enforcement of the law can be a violation of federal law and the man likely has standing to sue.

it's an example of the government silencing people for speech

It’s an example of someone being arrested for violating a law, in this case a law restricting how long you are allowed to present at a city council meeting.

This could be a case of selective enforcement, a deliberate attempt to retaliate against the man for his previous speech, which would be illegal under federal law (see Gonzales v. Trevino).

It’s also possible that this is not a new thing and the municipality in question just regulates city business very strictly. This is bad in its own right, it grants too much power to the state which can be abused, but would not be a free speech question.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#365

Post by eimrine »

ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #209
monssooon wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I fear the most. It is gas lighting and just manipulation. The idea of privacy will become associated with crime. Further down the line technical solutions that are private will become illegal and in general not being pro survailance will get you in trouble

Do you acknowledge that for many people and practically e2ee and crime are connected? e2ee is a very useful tool for crime and combined with crypto useful tool for monetizing crime. Criminals used to speak in code, meet clandestine, use burner phones and websites were easy to shut down. Now they don't need to. The solution to privacy problem is not to shout while closing your ears but to make it clear that you see th…

How is it possible to be that level of biased, to not observe that the government is a product of mass violence?

And e2ee/cryptography/bitcoin is just the implementation of free speech which supposed to be guaranted?

It is like saying that killing people is OK but storing photo of oneself nudes is a crime - and keep pretending to be not idiot.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#366

Post by soulofmischief »

onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

In other words, without a solid, fundamental, national level of education, democracy just will not work. And any democratic institution which does not codify the right to education in very specific terms is inherently weak to degradation over time due to subverted interests in the ruling class.

How do we solve this problem? I wish I readily had an answer. But as we witness our democratic institutions crumble in real time, it's hard to imagine the average voter becoming more educated in our lifetime.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#367

Post by intrasight »

pc86 wrote: post #338
roenxi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, the evidence is that people already pretty firmly against things like chat control and the will to push it through tends to come from the political circles more than popular belief it is a good idea. I expect that if the measure itself went to a general vote, the majority would be against it once they have to deal with a specific proposal. It takes repeated pushes by the authoritarians looking for an opp…

The problem is that "the authoritarians" (read: almost every politician at every level of government, but a drastically increasing percentage the higher you go) only need to get something passed once then it is there forever. Every law should have an automatic sunset period of 1-10 years that requires it to pass the entire legislative process again, or at least both full chambers + signing.

That would indeed solve many problems. It would also focus legislative minds now and in the future. Not sure it would be beneficial for the judicial branch.

Also beneficial perhaps would be to have it be necessary that the law spells out the technical implementation. Sort of like patents do.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#368

Post by fyredge »

stavros wrote: post #271
fyredge wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I'm disappointed that you would think that way. Change is the only constant, in people, in societies, in politics. Change can be spontaneous, but more of then than not, it is slow, gradual, boring, but still change nonetheless. Would you concede to that?

Change doesn't happen by itself. If you take all the people who want the change and put them in prison, nothing will change.

I hope we're still talking about homosexuality, because you can have support for gay people without being gay. There were more than just black people who protested against what happened to George Floyd. You can absolutely have empathy towards people not exactly like yourself.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#369

Post by derektank »

microgpt wrote: post #329
charcircuit wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was asked due to his actions he took after he was told to stop. If he had just stopped talking after being told his time was up he would not have been asked to leave.

[flagged]

The 1st amendment has long been understood to protect the content of your speech, not the time, place, or manner of your speech. It guarantees the communicative act, the viewpoint or message conveyed; it does not give you an unlimited right to convey it however you want. The government has been consistently allowed by the Supreme Court to establish noise ordinances preventing people from yelling into a bullhorn at night or laws against marching a protest down a busy city street without first obtaining a parade permit. As long as there is no viewpoint discrimination in how those laws are enforced, it is perfectly legal to restrict public comment periods to 3 minutes.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#370

Post by [deleted] »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #293
xinayder wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Swiss succeeded in this, maybe we should look at their model and improve.

Switzerland is a country with a total population approximately the size of the state of New Jersey. This being too centralized for most things, they then further divided that population into 26 cantons ranging in size from approximately the size of New Hampshire at the high end to "that number of people would be classified as a town rather than a city" at the low end. The median size looks to be around 200,000 people…

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