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Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

nonogra.ph

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Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#351

Post by lotsofpulp »

Varelion wrote: post #349

Gonna repost this comment I made last week, as no one interacted with its core idea. I am torn. I have bore first-hand witness to the scale of the PsyOps war waged on the American people by institutions near and far. Artroturfing to sew division to one means of another. In all these operations, anonymity is what drives it. I was born and raised in the anonymous internet, and tasted its freedoms. I oppose censorship.…

>But, at this point, I have come to wonder it it would be best to always have your real-life personality attached to all you do.

I also had similar thoughts to you, but seeing the election results of the previous decade in the US makes me question the premise that transparency will lead to desirable results because the majority have good intentions.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#352

Post by cindyllm »

shevy-java wrote: post #75

Fascism will lose in the long run. Right now the lobbyists coordinate rather effectively, looking at how many democracies already succumbed here. Well, we need direct democracy - the system that we have right now with regard to democracies, is undermined by corruption.

[dead]

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#353

Post by DrScientist »

pc86 wrote: post #345
DrScientist wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing the ability to bring information to people, with the ability of people to consume it. As has been mentioned elsewhere on the thread - the real issue is often there are complex 2nd and third order effects, often there are devils in the details. I'm not saying people are not capable of consuming it, I'm saying people don't have the bandwidth. Direct democracy is best when it's used for very specific p…

Do you think the average person - ~98 IQ, at most one year of college but likely none, working some sort of retail, home health, or counter food service job - is truly capable of synthesizing third-order effects of a legal proposal and how it interacts with the current environment? If you do, what about someone 10% below average? 20%? Even at 20% below average intelligence we're still talking about one out of every t…

A consequence of democracy means average people get a vote.

However average people are actually pretty good at making the right moral, common sense calls, if not the technical legal detail. I suspect that's in part because they are not living in the Westminister ( or whatever your seat of power is ) bubble.

So any system needs to blend that common sense, with specific expertise. In theory that's what a representative democracy does - however one of the failings currently is the party system ( note designed, in part, to overcome the bandwidth problem - people grouping together to give a single consistent message rather than 100's of independent ones ), where capture of the party by a few people has become too easy and some options that the majority of people want never being offered at the voting time.

This results in an increasingly angry and volatile electorate.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#354

Post by nicce »

microgpt wrote: post #332
kgwxd wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not your HN account though. They even stopped replying to my annual emails asking if it's "possible" yet. They originally help me change the name, and scrub any replies that mentioned the original name. That's not enough though, thanks to old copies of the site data that still have my original name, linked directly to the real HN post it appears on, showing up in search results.

If you're in Europe, you can sue them under GDPR? They won't obey - HN explicitly chooses to disobey European laws - but having an arrest warrant out might be inconvenient enough for them to do it anyway.

That would likely result for just adding the geofencing so that EU countries can’t access directly.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#356

Post by clcaev »

Varelion wrote: post #349

Gonna repost this comment I made last week, as no one interacted with its core idea. I am torn. I have bore first-hand witness to the scale of the PsyOps war waged on the American people by institutions near and far. Artroturfing to sew division to one means of another. In all these operations, anonymity is what drives it. I was born and raised in the anonymous internet, and tasted its freedoms. I oppose censorship.…

> In all these operations, anonymity is what drives it.

The most egregious, prolific lies out there have been fully attributed; and perhaps especially because of attribution, people vehemently disagree on which are the lies.

Those who wield outsized power experience attribution of speech asymmetrically. Filtering societal communication supports the concentration of power.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#357

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #351
Varelion wrote: post #349

Gonna repost this comment I made last week, as no one interacted with its core idea. I am torn. I have bore first-hand witness to the scale of the PsyOps war waged on the American people by institutions near and far. Artroturfing to sew division to one means of another. In all these operations, anonymity is what drives it. I was born and raised in the anonymous internet, and tasted its freedoms. I oppose censorship.…

>But, at this point, I have come to wonder it it would be best to always have your real-life personality attached to all you do. I also had similar thoughts to you, but seeing the election results of the previous decade in the US makes me question the premise that transparency will lead to desirable results because the majority have good intentions.

[deleted]

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#358

Post by albertgoeswoof »

Varelion wrote: post #349

Gonna repost this comment I made last week, as no one interacted with its core idea. I am torn. I have bore first-hand witness to the scale of the PsyOps war waged on the American people by institutions near and far. Artroturfing to sew division to one means of another. In all these operations, anonymity is what drives it. I was born and raised in the anonymous internet, and tasted its freedoms. I oppose censorship.…

If this is the case then I simply won’t engage. 90 % will not engage and you’re left with the 10% who are willing to put everything they do out there publicly and permanently- probably because they have an ulterior motive or commercial reason to do so

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#359

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Note that age verification does not rely on you handing over identifying information to the party requesting it, that's just one possible implementation. Another more privacy conscious one is e.g. iDIN or whatever comes after, which works a bit like oauth in that you're redirected to a trusted 3rd party like your bank which only confirms "this person is 18+" to the requesting party.

The only thing that the requester needs to save is the "this person is 18+ as verified by this party".

Granted, that's still an avenue for law enforcement to find out who you are, but then, so is your internet service provider or VPN (where the VPN is likely already a honeypot)

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#360

Post by eimrine »

cdrini wrote: post #339
onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

I think there are many arguments for and against this type of regulation. Good arguments on both sides take into account nth-order effects. But both sides have different priorities, and have different weighing of the trade-offs. Calling one side effectively "thick" isn't really taking part in the debate. (And cause and effect are taught pretty early on in school; not sure you need to learn "systems thinking" to under…

There are no good arguments for this type of regulation, but there are some very good arguments to not let kids to use proprietary software. You know, nothing is worse than a half-truth.
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