Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

nonogra.ph

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 663 posts

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#321

Post by petcat »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #320
onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

No, not everyone exploits that. But those that reject these controls are often ridiculed because the thought about any side effect is too alien. Yet I don't think age verification will work with national IDs for that matter. I generally use social media sites that won't implement it. But yes, the normal insta/tiktok user will be affected and not think too much about it. Others will have true freedom of speech.

> I generally use social media sites that won't implement it.

Which social media sites won't implement it?

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#322

Post by kgwxd »

microgpt wrote: post #70
btbuildem wrote: post #33

This is a reminder to curate and prune all your past social media contribution, because when this goes thru, you KNOW they will apply it retroactively. You'd loathe to lose your cushy job over a moment of lucid honesty back in 2011.

It's already too late for that but you can at least, by deleting now, reduce the chances they see it.

Not your HN account though. They even stopped replying to my annual emails asking if it's "possible" yet. They originally help me change the name, and scrub any replies that mentioned the original name. That's not enough though, thanks to old copies of the site data that still have my original name, linked directly to the real HN post it appears on, showing up in search results.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#323

Post by raffael_de »

iamflimflam1 wrote: post #38

This is already happening if you want to visit the US. Customs officers will look at your social media accounts to make sure you are compliant.

surveillance of foreigners (particularly) with residence in a different country is a different issue from surveillance of own citizens.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#324

Post by raxxorraxor »

stymaar wrote: post #248
jonathanstrange wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids will simply find a way to circumvent it without any extra steps. To make age verification useful for protecting kids, you'd need to lock down every software on every operating system and put it under tight government control. We're talking about things like every programming language with a networking library, wget, curl, every web browser that was ever developed, etc. All kinds of tools and software would need…

> Kids will simply find a way to circumvent it without any extra steps. This is just an argument against any regulation whatsoever. Yes, some people will find ways to do illegal stuff, but that doesn't mean forbidding stuff is useless. For instance gangs members always find a way to get access to weapons even in countries where firearms is regulated, but there are still pretty much zero mass slaughter in schools in t…

Sorry, I don't want to involve the government in anything when I just want to communicate. It is a pretty simple request and it is not comparable to anything that can endanger others directly.

You don't need government ID to talk to people and share info. You don't need government ID to take a dump.

Also the criticism of the article is just ignored while it is a very likely development and lack of imagination isn't an excuse.

Even today government in the EU are already implementing mass surveillance, even by third parties.

Verification wasn't needed in the past, it won't be needed in the future.

Requiring an internet ID is the the opinion of a marginalised minority that has difficulties with technology. Aside from those that are advertisers of course.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#325

Post by nextaccountic »

teiferer wrote: post #242
chii wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid things like brexit was put to a vote, but really important things such as age verification and mass surveillance are never put to any vote.

In what way was Brexit a stupid thing? It was an extemely important decision, directly affecting everybody's life. If asking people about anything then isn't that what it should be? You might not like the outcome (I don't) but I consider the question of Brexit important.

It was put to vote for stupid reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_o...

> The referendum was originally conceived by David Cameron as a means to defeat the anti-EU faction within his own party by having it fail.

After that, another issue is that the leave campaign was heavily based on lies and misleading the British voters.

Couple that with a extreme form of policy lock-in / hysteresis: you need just to form a small margin in a majority at a single point of time. After that point of time, the popular opinion doesn't matter anymore because getting back to EU isn't as easy as leaving. So the misinformation campaign need to work just once. By the time voters realize what happened, it's too late.

This situation is a critical failure of democracy. Not just direct democracy, representative democracy can't work in a post-truth world either.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#326

Post by kgwxd »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #203
jay_kyburz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been posting under my real name for over 20 years because this was always going to be the case. Using my real name is a constant reminder to not to post things I might later regret.

sigh, another typo on my permanent record.

For interpersonal discussion, it's a great way to keep yourself in check. For activism and journalism, that's exactly what "they" want from you. They'd rather you self censor, and live in fear of even just criticizing them by utilizing you own good reputation.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#328

Post by morganf »

ranyume wrote: post #96
RachelF wrote: post #41

Age verification is just one part of this crackdown. Device attestation is another - making sure you're using an unmodified government approved operating system and apps linked to your ID.

AI mass surveillance is another. The powerful are just ceasing opportunities to accumulate power and capital, seeing that right now it is not good enough for them.

I think you mean "seizing". "Ceasing opportunities" means the precise opposite of what I think you intend to say.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#329

Post by microgpt »

charcircuit wrote: post #314
nephihaha wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For being five seconds over? Not even minutes.

He was asked due to his actions he took after he was told to stop. If he had just stopped talking after being told his time was up he would not have been asked to leave.

[flagged]

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#330

Post by FergusArgyll »

Techies have a real blind spot here. This stuff is very popular, like bipartisan support popular. Yes, it's a precursor to terrible things and they will happen but you have to convince people the the harms outweigh the benefits. Just asking "Why can't they tell the point of this" is not helpful or true. "The point of this" is decided by those pushing it, those pushing it are not politicians, they're parents and they're pushing it because they're scared of social media, not because they want to censor you.

You need to explain to and convince those parents that this will result in something worse.

Post reply on HN