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HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

danunparsed.com

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Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, temperature 0 does make the LLM deterministic. Well, in theory theory, temperature 0 doesn't really exist. Mathematically, as lim temperature->0, the distribution gets spikier and spikier, the most likely sample goes to almost-but-not-quite infinity and the rest go to almost-but-not-quite 0. In practice, temperature=0 is literally a separate branch of an if statement that just picks the most common sample…

>in theory theory, temperature 0 doesn't really exist. It does exist very much, even if you go to pure math. Look at the softmax function and take the limit as T->0. It becomes a dirac-delta function. I.e. in a discrete setting (like for LLMs with a finite set of output tokens), probability P becomes one for argmax and 0 for everything else. Only in coding practice it is easer to implement T=0 as a simple if check th…

> It becomes a dirac-delta function. I.e. in a discrete setting (like for LLMs with a finite set of output tokens), probability P becomes one for argmax and 0 for everything else. Only in coding practice it is easer to implement T=0 as a simple if check that directly chooses argmax instead of calculating the limit of some function that includes 1/T quotients.

I don't understand the distinction you're drawing. A Dirac delta function is a "simple if check".

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its a bad idea in general to use non-1.0 temperature. there is a reason labs are strongly recommending using 1.0. using low temperature is more deterministic, but the cost is the model becomes "dumber"

1.0 is actually pretty arbitrary and way too high as a general rule. Something like 0.3 is a more sensible default

If RL was used to train the model, the model will have been trained on its own sequences. Those will have been generated with a temperature of 1.0. They must be, otherwise you would get a premature collapse or explosion of your entropy if the temperature was respectively lower or higher.

After that RL step, you want to stick to the RL distribution, and so keep a temperature of 1.0. Other temperatures will drive the model out-of-distribution.

That is why the sampling step for agents or thinking LLMs are usually kept at a temperature of 1.0.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#173
post #154

I think what's more worrying to me (if other systems work like this ATS) is that it seems to judge based on a bunch of factors that will probably disqualify a ton of decent to good participants. For example, 65 points are given for a mix of personal projects and open source contributions. Which is great if your one and only interest is in tech, and you don't have a family, dependents or a second/third job. If you hav…

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Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#174
post #6

An alarming number of people don't understand that LLMs work via purely stochastic processes, so I'm happy to see in-depth pieces like this. I'm looking for a job and maybe this is why it's so hard to get a callback these days: resumes are just dumped in some LLM black hole and no one really knows how it works. The author says: > temperature 0.1 — low, supposedly nudging the model toward deterministic outputs This is…

In theory, temperature 0 does make the LLM deterministic. Well, in theory theory, temperature 0 doesn't really exist. Mathematically, as lim temperature->0, the distribution gets spikier and spikier, the most likely sample goes to almost-but-not-quite infinity and the rest go to almost-but-not-quite 0. In practice, temperature=0 is literally a separate branch of an if statement that just picks the most common sample…

If you make an exact integer implementation and run with temp=0 it's deterministic.

You don't even need temperature 0, just make a random seed for the sampler part of the input and then its deterministic as a function of the input.

But running autoregressive models at temp=0 tends to expose pathological behavior, because the training process produces a function with a lot of gain so its prone to feedback on its own noise.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#175
post #99

From `resume_evaluation_system_message.jinja` > *SCORES MUST NEVER DEPEND ON THE FOLLOWING FACTORS:* > - College, university, or educational institution name > - CGPA, GPA, or academic grades I don't understand why they would omit these factors from the evaluation.

I don't understand why they'd hand over those data points over to the model in the first place. If it's in the context window, it's impacting the output. To ensure that no weight is placed on those factors, they should be sanitizing them out before handing the data over to the model.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#176
post #173
post #154

I think what's more worrying to me (if other systems work like this ATS) is that it seems to judge based on a bunch of factors that will probably disqualify a ton of decent to good participants. For example, 65 points are given for a mix of personal projects and open source contributions. Which is great if your one and only interest is in tech, and you don't have a family, dependents or a second/third job. If you hav…

[flagged]

Of course life isn't fair. But here the result is that companies will ignore potentially great candidates which dedicate all their programming time to their job and instead consider candidates which may be not just worse programmers, but also are more interested in their hobbies (or padding their CV) that doing their job.

I'm saying this as somebody who most of the time has some side project going on.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#177
I really dont understand this constant changing of numbers. I have tried a bunch of ATS reviewers and everytime on the same resume i get different numbers. Its weird and unreliable. I understand the need for doing this to filter through thousands of CVs but maybe there is a better way. Like a take home test at the beginning or a test of somekind.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its a bad idea in general to use non-1.0 temperature. there is a reason labs are strongly recommending using 1.0. using low temperature is more deterministic, but the cost is the model becomes "dumber"

1.0 is actually pretty arbitrary and way too high as a general rule. Something like 0.3 is a more sensible default

If you use a model in a configuration far from where it was RLed you get no warranty. (you also get no warranty the other way, however)

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#179

So sending my CV to every company three times should get me pass the ATS?

if i ever go back into the job market, will need three accounts: Peter J Smith, Peter Smith and PJ Smith. they live in #101, #102 and 103# 5607 Jane Street

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#180
The takeaway from this for me is that, using an LLM to score anything takes multiple (maybe even many) runs and the result you’ll get is, at best, a sane-ish distribution.

Which sort of sounds workable until you scale it up to larger datasets, where at some point compute/time/energy costs will render it non-viable.

I am sure there’s some reasonable rule of thumb estimation on distribution that could be applied based off fewer runs per data artifact, but you’re always going to be trading off against confidence by doing this.

Beyond this, I’d bet that almost no implemented systems that use LLMs for scoring, ranking, or decision making use such a multi-run approach. Partly because people don’t understand their behaviour is stochastic, perhaps because a lot of people without a background in statistics don’t understand what stochastic actually means, and no doubt partly because of budget concerns: if you have to ask an LLM to do the same thing 10, 50, 100 times to get a sufficiently good result, then the cost saving argument is either weakened or completely destroyed.

There is at least one more aspect worth considering in the specific case of resumes/CVs: is the inconsistency of scoring by LLM worse than the inconsistency of scoring by a human following a similar process?

Because the reality is that, even for an experienced recruiter, reviewing hundreds or thousands of resumes or CVs gets pretty fatiguing. People get hungry, bored, tired, restless, irritable, etc.

That inevitably leads to inconsistencies creeping in, so there’s always an element of “luck” (or, perhaps better, uncertainty) as to whether your resume/CV passes screening.

So is that inconsistency better or worse with LLM screening? I don’t know. But, at least, if it’s not worse maybe it doesn’t matter for this specific use case. And if it’s notably better then maybe it’s raised the bar on what “good enough” screening looks like?

(And I’m sure other use cases warrant similar, “does it matter?”, questions, with the answers no doubt landing differently.)

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