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More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

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Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#81

Post by stackghost »

pfdietz wrote: post #61

It would not be surprising if ancient life did exist on Mars, since impacts would likely have sent life back and forth between Earth and Mars (and possibly Venus). For the same reason, the existence of ancient life on Mars would not show that life is likely to arise on Earth-like worlds, since one could not conclude it was an independent event.

>impacts would likely have sent life back and forth between Earth and Mars

By what mechanism is an impact giving some debris on Mars enough delta-V to reach Earth, without obliterating Mars and also sterilizing the debris due to heat and plasma?

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#82

Post by [deleted] »

stackghost wrote: post #81
pfdietz wrote: post #61

It would not be surprising if ancient life did exist on Mars, since impacts would likely have sent life back and forth between Earth and Mars (and possibly Venus). For the same reason, the existence of ancient life on Mars would not show that life is likely to arise on Earth-like worlds, since one could not conclude it was an independent event.

>impacts would likely have sent life back and forth between Earth and Mars By what mechanism is an impact giving some debris on Mars enough delta-V to reach Earth, without obliterating Mars and also sterilizing the debris due to heat and plasma?

[deleted]

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#83

Post by [deleted] »

stackghost wrote: post #81
pfdietz wrote: post #61

It would not be surprising if ancient life did exist on Mars, since impacts would likely have sent life back and forth between Earth and Mars (and possibly Venus). For the same reason, the existence of ancient life on Mars would not show that life is likely to arise on Earth-like worlds, since one could not conclude it was an independent event.

>impacts would likely have sent life back and forth between Earth and Mars By what mechanism is an impact giving some debris on Mars enough delta-V to reach Earth, without obliterating Mars and also sterilizing the debris due to heat and plasma?

[deleted]

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#84

Post by alex_duf »

stackghost wrote: post #81
pfdietz wrote: post #61

It would not be surprising if ancient life did exist on Mars, since impacts would likely have sent life back and forth between Earth and Mars (and possibly Venus). For the same reason, the existence of ancient life on Mars would not show that life is likely to arise on Earth-like worlds, since one could not conclude it was an independent event.

>impacts would likely have sent life back and forth between Earth and Mars By what mechanism is an impact giving some debris on Mars enough delta-V to reach Earth, without obliterating Mars and also sterilizing the debris due to heat and plasma?

It's surprising but it's a real thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_meteorite

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#85

Post by amarant »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #53
clickety_clack wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At most points in time resources are scarce and not all life can be supported. At those times beings with a tendency to say “them” will give way to beings who most strongly assert “us”.

The scarcity view of life is so deeply ingrained in some of us that its become an entire world view. Some folks cant even imagine a post scarcity society. Try though. Space is mind blowingly large and anything with the ability to traverse interstellar space alteady has access to unlimited resources and energy, likely closer than us. We live in a tiny backwater of the galaxy. We literally have nothing of value to such…

Some sci fi author (I forget who) pointed out that in a space faring society, the most valuable materials are biological materials. Once you have access to comets and planets, you'll have, for all intents and purposes, an infinite supply of gold, diamond, ruby, etc.

Wood however... You're not gonna find a lot of wood in space.

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#87

Post by TFNA »

pigpop wrote: post #67
clickety_clack wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At most points in time resources are scarce and not all life can be supported. At those times beings with a tendency to say “them” will give way to beings who most strongly assert “us”.

Comments like yours make me think that sci-fi shows (and a lot of literary sci-fi) like Star Trek did a grave disservice to our conception of advanced spacefaring civilizations. They were always focused on alien planets , assuming that once a race was able to travel the stars that they would still chain themselves to a gravity well. It's like imagining an industrial society where everyone still lives on a farm like t…

In his novel Aurora, Kim Stanley Robinson challenged this view by suggesting that at the small scale of orbital structures, there may be insurmountable obstacles to biological life, like the buildup of salt through waste. His ultimate conclusion was that “life is a planetary phenomenon” (and we should take better care of the planet we have).

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#88

Post by throwaway676712 »

pigpop wrote: post #60
roenxi wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our values are murderous, I wouldn't want to be visited by aliens that shared out values. A galactic version of human society would quite reasonably identify that earth couldn't fight back then special interests would have our planet liquidated for its natural resources without making headlines in space-news. Possibly colonise us, kill all the humans then offer an apology a few generations later and maybe a small loc…

I don't see why an intelligent alien species would have similar values to us. It would depend entirely on their social organization so unless they were the exact equivalent of us evolutionarily (omnivorous, sexually dimorphic, social, bipedal, terrestrial, etc.) they would value the lives, property, territory and status of their own kind and other animals very differently. A race of aquatic arthropods could be mostly…

A necessary condition for the emergence of civilization (in its broadest sense, as in the collectively organized reshaping of one's living environment for one's purposes) is a basic level of trust and cooperation.

Humans are not naturally prone to bouts of violence like other species and human societies do not tolerate impulsive violence in adults. Instead, the vast majority of human-on-human violence is deliberate: people plan, carefully and rationally, the killing of their fellow human beings in order to achieve their goals. This is known as 'war'. This is very rare among species, and more violent species cannot form complex societies at scale, despite being also quite smart in some cases (chimps, octopuses).

We even unconsciously internalized this idea to some degree, since most people are comfortable with the idea of militaries existing and being necessary but also agree that solitary murderous psychopaths should be put in prison.

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#89

Post by throwaway676712 »

londons_explore wrote: post #25

It is quite remarkable that the question of life on mars (or not) hasn't been answered conclusively despite a lot of human effort to get an answer.

It's a touchy subject because scientists are afraid of looking like cranks. Just like cognition in other nonhuman species was historically dismissed because no one wants to be seen as someone who think plants talk to each other

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#90

Post by seanhunter »

nephihaha wrote: post #44
sgt101 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Viking carried an experiment that tried to detect life. Now, the consensus is that it failed, and that the experiment was incapable of creating a useful result given the chemistry of the soil. Some people argue about that, but I am in no way qualified to take part in the debate, so I would back the consensus here. What is odd is that there hasn't been a single other mission that's carried any experiment that ha…

The Viking results were at worst, inconclusive and at best positive. And yet in both cases we have been led to believe they were negative. They are far from the only pointers to life on Mars either, since we've seen pictures of what look like fossilised stromatolites and algal mats, seasonal methane emissions, and discolorations in seasonal flows & ice. Even the rusty coloured surface of Mars may be due, in part, to…

The “face on mars” is an image compression artefact that disappeared as soon as they had high resolution imaging of the area. Seeing it as a face is highly dependent on sympathetic lighting and the right time of day, like lots of similar features on earth eg the “Old Man” of Hoy which I have seen first-hand and you really have to want to see it as a man’s face to do so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cydonia_(Mars)
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