> They are just metal tubes with wings. The 787 would beg to differ. It is an engineering achievement on par with the 747.
Just a shame the airlines mostly opted for an interior that ignores obesity rates and the existence of shoulders
The Boeing 747 begins its final descent
261–270 of 378 posts
Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or we could just build trains (in the US, other wealthy places seem to already get this)
Seriously it is embarrassing how under developed trains are in the US. Yes there are some routes that don’t make sense but there are tons that do. It makes no sense. We’ve simply resigned to this general feeling of “well everything is probably too far apart and even if they aren’t it’s just not going to happen.”
Sure, but when the 747 was new and gas was a few cents a gallon?
An airplane is a very efficient way to move people. There is no ground friction, the route is pretty direct, and once the airplane is loaded 100 passenger-miles a gallon is not unreasonable.
Even today the EU has to ban short-haul flights along rail corridors because jets are still competitive. I say this as someone who likes trains and chooses them whenever possible.
Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
All else being equal, potentially - although as I mentioned there have been cases where one engine falling off a 4 engine aircraft hit another in the process. But ETOPS certification is based on it being demonstrated that engines are sufficiently reliable that the probability of an independent failure is incredibly unlikely, and also requires that operators have a stricter maintenance process. The only dual engine fa…
No, the highest risk for dual engine failure is bird strike.
Which is not and never will be an issue for airliners transiting oceans under ETOPS.
Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or we could just build trains (in the US, other wealthy places seem to already get this)
Seriously it is embarrassing how under developed trains are in the US. Yes there are some routes that don’t make sense but there are tons that do. It makes no sense. We’ve simply resigned to this general feeling of “well everything is probably too far apart and even if they aren’t it’s just not going to happen.”
Trains will also be killed by fully autonomous cars. Trains still need stations, loading times, tickets, horrible food, waiting in lobbies, luggage limits, government ID ... check in. Trains are literally unable to ever deliver door-to-door transport. And, in north america, biulding tens of thousands of stations (one in every small town) plus millions of miles of track ... it just isnt going to happen in our lifetimes.
Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent
#265Anyone interested should read Joe Sutter's book, 747. Sutter was the lead engineer for the development of the 747 and he has some awesome stories. One interesting story is that Juan Trippe (CEO of PanAm) wanted Boeing to create a double-decker airplane. He was enamored with the idea of "ocean liners" cruising the sky. But Sutter (and other engineers) knew that it would be impossible to create what he wanted, so inste…
I hated the top deck when flying east from NY to London. The rising sun poured in every time a crew member opened the cockpit door, waking me up. Best seat for me was the single one in the lower deck at the very nose of the aircraft. The 747 was a great aircraft to fly in though. The tower of power effect on take-off really reassured you that you were going to get where you were going.
> The tower of power effect on take-off really reassured you that you were going to get where you were going.
I have the memory of being struck by how much the overhead storage compartments were shaking at takeoff. Not reassuring at all, but they stopped shaking once we got off the ground.
Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent
#266I know less about the airframe differences across the -400 and -8, but I can say the 747-8 represented a major upgrade in Flight Management Software. I re-wrote the Central Maintenance System (portion inside the FMS) in C from scratch because no one had the original detailed design documents. The original -400 code was written in Pascal if I'm remembering correctly. I gleamed what I could from the source and relied o…
> I'll quote a Boeing (from MD originally) executive as saying "Meeting this project deadline is more important than your child dying."
Given Boeings later history this is pretty chilling...
Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent
#267I know less about the airframe differences across the -400 and -8, but I can say the 747-8 represented a major upgrade in Flight Management Software. I re-wrote the Central Maintenance System (portion inside the FMS) in C from scratch because no one had the original detailed design documents. The original -400 code was written in Pascal if I'm remembering correctly. I gleamed what I could from the source and relied o…
I hope you replied something like 'No, meeting this project deadline is more important than YOUR child dying, to me this is a paycheck.' That's what I would've been thinking in the shower 2 days after the conversation, anyway.
I feel like people on HN who have comfortable passive incomes from stocks or other sources forget that people need a paycheck to sustain their lifestyles.
Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent
#268Anyone interested should read Joe Sutter's book, 747. Sutter was the lead engineer for the development of the 747 and he has some awesome stories. One interesting story is that Juan Trippe (CEO of PanAm) wanted Boeing to create a double-decker airplane. He was enamored with the idea of "ocean liners" cruising the sky. But Sutter (and other engineers) knew that it would be impossible to create what he wanted, so inste…
The upper deck was really intended as a first class lounge and I think I was up there once. But obviously wasn't very economical and got turned into business class seating once that came in.
Qantas (I think, it’s possible it was BA) used the upper deck for economy and it was my favourite place to sit. The window seat had a little locker between your seat and the window (the curvature of the fuselage meant the seat couldn’t be right up against the window). It was a great place to keep all your stuff accessible without having to bother the aisle seat to get up to the overhead storage.
Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent
#269It’s such a beautiful plane. Despite having worked for Airbus, the 747 triggers emotions for me that the A380 simply doesn’t. It represents an era of aerospace engineering that will not come back (in many cases probably for the better - but still!)
It was the last aircraft designed using a slide rule and conventional drafting --- the conventional wisdom is that if one printed up a compleat set of blueprints and loaded it on the plane it would be too heavy to take off, though of course, the anticipation was that it would soon be replaced by supersonic passenger aircraft, so it was designed to be easily converted to cargo. Amazing aircraft, well-deserving of the…
There's an old quip about aircraft design that "a plane isn’t ready to fly until the documentation is heavier than the airplane". Can't find a source for it though.
Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hope you replied something like 'No, meeting this project deadline is more important than YOUR child dying, to me this is a paycheck.' That's what I would've been thinking in the shower 2 days after the conversation, anyway.
I feel like people on HN who have comfortable passive incomes from stocks or other sources forget that people need a paycheck to sustain their lifestyles.
It seems the poster was aware of that
"That's what I would've been thinking in the shower 2 days after the conversation, anyway."