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Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

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Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#451

Post by jemmyw »

walrus01 wrote: post #262
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m 30 and “we can’t do tests in paper” seems _insane_. Just how metastatic has ed tech been in what, 9 years since my undergrad?

I'm quite a bit older than you, old enough that I remember learning to touch type in elementary school on Apple IIe and IIgs desktop computers. It's not reasonable these days to expect people to hand write a 4, 6, 8 page length essay on paper and pen with a finite time limit in a classroom. Being able to edit and revise things in a word processor type interface is an essential part of writing an academic paper. Addit…

From what I recall, doing handwritten CS exams in 2004, you aren't writing long essays. Long form was the course work. The exam was short form answers and it did not stress my writing hand. The one with most writing was the natural language exam (an extinct subject I should think) and I felt more time worry over having to flip back and forth between pages to cross reference than time spent writing.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#452

Post by anshumankmr »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #57

In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. I have written an article on how I have adjusted my classes to the situation: https://htmx.org/essays/universities-and-ai/ Ironically, I think the AI era may make university degrees a better signal of the intellectual abilities of students due to the presence of pre-computer infrastructure like large lecture halls, industrial-scale copiers, etc.

Funny thing is in India we were ahead of the curve in this one cause most of our CS undergrad classes involved writing code by hand.

And students were ahead of the curve too, with chits, hidden iPads, phones and the classic psst-psst in the middle of exams.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#453

Post by robocat »

kalium-xyz wrote: post #220
walrus01 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typewriters are an expensive and niche item these days, due to no longer being manufactured, and the good ones being collected by weird nerds. Sort of like buying a 40-year-old vinyl turntable that is in good and usable condition.

You cant type fast on them either

You mean on mechanical typewriters? It would be hard to learn to press keys slowly and avoid rollover unless using single finger typing: key travel was a long way on old typewriters.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#454

Post by hresvelgr »

I think the irony here is that LLMs are the ultimate tool for auto-didacts and people who love to learn independently, bar none. Using them to cheat is such a profound waste to me. I've beeen able to accelerate my learning thanks to LLMs, and it saddens me that the potential for this kind of personal enrichment is lost on most.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#455

Post by paul7986 »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #128
paul7986 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be no computer at all just give students a typewriter. It could prompt a resurgence of the typewriter :)

These days pretty sure computers are cheaper than typewriters.

Im thinking there are lots of cheap typewriters in peoples attics, at goodwills and etc.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#456

Post by dingdongditchme »

kome wrote: post #448
recursivedoubts wrote: post #57

In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. I have written an article on how I have adjusted my classes to the situation: https://htmx.org/essays/universities-and-ai/ Ironically, I think the AI era may make university degrees a better signal of the intellectual abilities of students due to the presence of pre-computer infrastructure like large lecture halls, industrial-scale copiers, etc.

Italian university graduates are going to shine in this world. They face oral and written exams held in person, where it is very easy and perfectly normal to fail. This culture is completely alien to Anglo academia, which needs to find other solutions. And given the comments below/above, they are really not ready yet.

I did my masters in the UK and PhD in Germany. The difference in quality graduates (in engineering) is staggering. The first two semesters are more challenging than the 4 years Meng.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#457

Post by Balgair »

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #410
bkallus wrote: post #174

I have seen it firsthand in the CS department here at Dartmouth. It is bad. We're currently designing a new intro systems curriculum, and we're thinking of it as an adversarial problem. That is, we're designing the course to ensure that a student optimizing for the best grade per unit work still meets our learning objectives. That means, as everyone else is saying, paper exams, but also 1-on-1 interviews to check tha…

People optimizing for grades is so sad. I got a BS in CS and no one has ever asked about my grades. I tried to optimize for learning and it turns out that pays off really well once you hit the real world.

If you want to be a MD or a JD, then you must optimize for grades. The entrance into post secondary education requires it to be so.

Seeing as the article was about Brown and their PLME program is famous for med school acceptance, then I think we should expect that the culture there is more about grades than a generic undergrad university's culture. Which, yeah, is also very grade focused.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#458

Post by paul7986 »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #155
walrus01 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers good enough to run libreoffice writer or the equivalent and print to a networked laser are thrown in the ewaste trash all the time , the cost really would be in the labor and somewhat custom software setup. Could also reuse old flat panel displays that have been decommissioned from office use.

Lubing typewriters and ensuring they have a fresh ribbon also sounds pretty labor intensive. (Where do you even get ribbons these days)

Well AI could prompt us to go backwards to even to living off the land ;-)

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#459

Post by dizhn »

yiyingzhang wrote: post #199

As a university professor, I honestly don't understand the point of grading. Who will look at and care about grades? Likely company HR. But then why should we (professors) do the screening for companies for free? Also, grades have long been inflated to a point we might as well just give everyone an A and let companies figure out how to select people.

> But then why should we (professors) do the screening for companies for free?

Corporations were able to convince future employees to pay for their job training (i.e school). Getting professors to do the screening is not much.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#460

Post by sureglymop »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #57

In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. I have written an article on how I have adjusted my classes to the situation: https://htmx.org/essays/universities-and-ai/ Ironically, I think the AI era may make university degrees a better signal of the intellectual abilities of students due to the presence of pre-computer infrastructure like large lecture halls, industrial-scale copiers, etc.

As a student, I have no issue doing oral exams or written exams without notes. I mean I'm there to learn and out of curiosity so I like that challenge...

I truly don't understand how people can sign up for a degree and then have to cheat? Must feel torturous to endure a class you're not even interested in.

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