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The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#221

Post by kccqzy »

massysett wrote: post #154

This article is but one example of a tiresome genre: the paean to the supposed glory days of aviation. Passengers dressed up, dined on caviar, and smoked cigarettes. Stewardesses were sexy, and liquor flowed in the expansive 747 lounge. These pieces then bemoan today’s bus of the sky, with the unwashed masses donning sweatpants and dragging screaming toddlers who leave orange Goldfish crumbs in the seat cracks. I am…

I hear you, but I do think you are in the minority here. It is human nature to imagine themselves being fabulously wealthy and belonging to the 1% or the 0.1%, and therefore enjoying the privileges of this rarefied club. Such paeans to the glory days of aviation is the same as the glory days of railroading (traveling in your private rail car across country) and the same as the owning and enjoying a trip on your own yacht. Most people are fascinated by the act of fantasizing themselves being so filthy rich in a different era.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#222

Post by rdiddly »

"Its retirement signals an end to an era of American culture—and ambition."

What'd, fuckin' Putin ghost-write this?

The nostalgia is fine, but calling it "...perhaps the pinnacle of American engineering excellence," well, to paraphrase The Dude: "For you, maybe."[0] My engineering excellence kicks fucking ass, and I still have those values, and I'm an American.

Maybe those who aspire to engineering excellence should've gone to actual engineering school instead of majoring in literature.

[0] Perhaps you thought I was going to choose "That's just, like, your opinion man."

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#223

Post by rdiddly »

moojacob wrote: post #31

Didn’t read the full article but it starts with > The jet was perhaps the pinnacle of American engineering excellence. Its retirement signals an end to an era of American culture—and ambition. End of American ambition? SpaceX landing is rockets… today! That’s apples to apples also, both aerospace. In other fields we have literally taught computers how to talk.

Shoot, I should've replied under this comment.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48714519

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#224

Post by ggm »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #201
ggm wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Didn't work" meaning did not result in 5,000 orders. The aircraft in use by the middle east and asian airlines (and Qantas) are doing fine. They are also less economic than the modern 2 engine widebodies, despite being more economic than a 747 on the same route, with higher comfort levels and less intrusive engine noise. They just didn't turn out to fit the emerging economics of flight. They "work" fine.

I think they mean work out for airbus. Financially was a huge program disaster. It sold half the number of airframes needed for cost break even in nominal value, before accounting for the cost of capital. This also doesnt account for billions in illegal EU government subsidies.

> billions in illegal EU government subsidies.

I think this is a bit gratuitous. It's not like Boeing doesn't receive massive subsidies. I'm not disputing that subsidies exist.

WTO said "both sides" and you are on a TKO because the fine to Europe was bigger than the fine to the US.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#225

Post by mandeepj »

dcrazy wrote: post #120
jquery wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering who the current face of the country is and how we are acting on the world stage, it’s the least they can do.

This is why the right gets away with saying liberals hate America. Because as long as there is anything to criticize about America (which there always will be), some people simply cannot make a single truly positive statement about America, or even things that happened in or came from America. Slate is even worse than The Atlantic in this regard.

> This is why the right gets away with saying liberals hate America.

Right can’t say a single word without bringing up Left first! What’s their obsession with them? Why they seek constant validation from Left? Pretty clear who’s hateful! Given the current mess, it’s also clear who hates America.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#226

Post by pseingatl »

chadgiq wrote: post #137
thesumofall wrote: post #9

It’s such a beautiful plane. Despite having worked for Airbus, the 747 triggers emotions for me that the A380 simply doesn’t. It represents an era of aerospace engineering that will not come back (in many cases probably for the better - but still!)

Flew one from Chicago to Tokyo quite a few years back, what a great flight that was!

Was it on Flying Tiger? I worked on cargo 747's for them in another lifetime; they had a daily Chicago-Tokyo 747 cargo flight.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#227

Post by nehal3m »

chrisss395 wrote: post #156

I know less about the airframe differences across the -400 and -8, but I can say the 747-8 represented a major upgrade in Flight Management Software. I re-wrote the Central Maintenance System (portion inside the FMS) in C from scratch because no one had the original detailed design documents. The original -400 code was written in Pascal if I'm remembering correctly. I gleamed what I could from the source and relied o…

I hope you replied something like 'No, meeting this project deadline is more important than YOUR child dying, to me this is a paycheck.'

That's what I would've been thinking in the shower 2 days after the conversation, anyway.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#228

Post by buildsjets »

pa7ch wrote: post #139
zabzonk wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hated the top deck when flying east from NY to London. The rising sun poured in every time a crew member opened the cockpit door, waking me up. Best seat for me was the single one in the lower deck at the very nose of the aircraft. The 747 was a great aircraft to fly in though. The tower of power effect on take-off really reassured you that you were going to get where you were going.

What do you mean by this tower of power effect? Was it just that the 747 had a more powerful take-off or something due to 4 engines?

On a normal takeoff, a 4 engine aircraft has less excess power available than a 2 engine aircraft. Aircraft engines are sized to provide a minimum climb gradient with a single engine inoperative. A twin engine aircraft with an with an engine failure had lost 50% of its power. A quad with an engine failure is only down 25%. So the twin’s engines are oversized to compensate.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#229

Post by ggm »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #199
ggm wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Didn't work" meaning did not result in 5,000 orders. The aircraft in use by the middle east and asian airlines (and Qantas) are doing fine. They are also less economic than the modern 2 engine widebodies, despite being more economic than a 747 on the same route, with higher comfort levels and less intrusive engine noise. They just didn't turn out to fit the emerging economics of flight. They "work" fine.

I think what they mean is the A380 never made airbus any money. It makes plenty of money for many airlines

Thanks. Good clarification, makes sense to me now I grokked context.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#230

Post by s1artibartfast »

ggm wrote: post #224
s1artibartfast wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they mean work out for airbus. Financially was a huge program disaster. It sold half the number of airframes needed for cost break even in nominal value, before accounting for the cost of capital. This also doesnt account for billions in illegal EU government subsidies.

> billions in illegal EU government subsidies. I think this is a bit gratuitous. It's not like Boeing doesn't receive massive subsidies. I'm not disputing that subsidies exist. WTO said "both sides" and you are on a TKO because the fine to Europe was bigger than the fine to the US.

I wasn't trying to get into a comparison with US, but do think they they are relevant to the financial accounting of the 380 programing. Airbus got some 15 odd billion in launch aid that was to be paid back through sales that never occurred.

I love the plane itself. It is my top choice for transatlantic flight. Businesses class is fantastic. If you get a window, they have stow cabinets big enough for my backpack, laptop, and street shoes.

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