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Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

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Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#381

Post by [deleted] »

userbinator wrote: post #359
yiyingzhang wrote: post #199

As a university professor, I honestly don't understand the point of grading. Who will look at and care about grades? Likely company HR. But then why should we (professors) do the screening for companies for free? Also, grades have long been inflated to a point we might as well just give everyone an A and let companies figure out how to select people.

Wow. Do you care at all about the reputation of your university? I worked briefly in post-secondary CS education a long time ago, before academia turned into the ideological warzone it is today, and if I said such a thing, I would've probably lost my job. Also, grades have long been inflated Then stop inflating them. This is also what standardised testing is good for --- but no surprise, so many are against it becaus…

[deleted]

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#382

Post by joenot443 »

cj wrote: post #298
rsanek wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean very well? Lots of proof out there that it works; Fin, Sierra and others already operate on a value based pricing model where they only get paid if the AI actually resolves issues.

It works about as well as replacing your barista with an iPad.

A lot of restaurants in Korea and elsewhere have replaced human cashiers with touch screen kiosks. You’re given a number, someone calls it out when your drink’s ready. For the places I went to it worked just fine. Did you have a bad experience?

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#383

Post by throwaway152321 »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #334
throwaway152321 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would struggle to do it by hand. If you did it before then, barring physical limitations which have occurred since then, you would struggle for a short while and then you would be fine. I also did coursework purely on paper, got out of practice, and then once my kids were in school got back into the habit of handwriting. I can even write cursive again. Cursive makes it much easier on the hand and wrist. There's a…

> Cursive makes it much easier on the hand and wrist. For righties.

I'm left handed. It's still easier than print for me.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#384

Post by consensus1 »

redwall_hp wrote: post #152
recursivedoubts wrote: post #57

In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. I have written an article on how I have adjusted my classes to the situation: https://htmx.org/essays/universities-and-ai/ Ironically, I think the AI era may make university degrees a better signal of the intellectual abilities of students due to the presence of pre-computer infrastructure like large lecture halls, industrial-scale copiers, etc.

It's news to me that they weren't already. My exams were all in person and on paper in the early 2020s, and even my physics homework was a "do it on engineering paper and drop it in a mail slot" affair. The professors would forbid computers and phones during lectures and would stop to shame anyone who thought they were being sneaky. Computer Science classes were all on paper for exams, and low level ones did the old…

Writing code like that just seems like such a poor test of actual ability. More like just a rote memorization test. On the other hand I can't think of a better way to do it fairly now. I think it speaks to the obsolescence of the educational model more than anything.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#385

Post by crimsonalucard »

rmunn wrote: post #356
Aurornis wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's news to me that they weren't already. It’s an old (and outdated IMO) tradition at some Ivy Leagues, as the article notes. It may have worked in the era when students had a little more fear of repercussions and a little more sense that cheating on a test would only cause them problems when courses got harder later. Now it seems there is little interest in dealing with cheating, as evidenced by how hard it was f…

It's an old enough tradition that there are jokes that rely on you knowing the tradition. My favorite: professor known for being VERY strict tells class repeatedly in weeks leading up to exam, "You will have exactly two hours to finish your exam, and no more. I will not accept exam booklets turned in even one minute past the two hour mark: they will score a zero. Be warned." Exam day comes, and all but one student ar…

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Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#386

Post by Arainach »

userbinator wrote: post #364
Arainach wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Measuring what is easy to measure instead of what actually matters is a classic fallacy.

It's a good first step, a pre-filter to more demanding questions.

There's no such thing as "filtering" in academics. You don't get to kick out the students who didn't do well on the multiple choice and only proceed with the ones who scored highly.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#388

Post by noisy_boy »

Aurornis wrote: post #286
BinRoo wrote: post #167

> In the AI era... Back in my day, you could also just Google the problems and find the solutions. What mitigated cheating at UVA was the honor code and each professor's faith and trust in our integrity. That culture was enough to not cheat. Imo, the fix should be to work on culture. Cheating should always be a tempting choice, so that the student may challenge their integrity, which is a muscle that can atrophy.

> What mitigated cheating at UVA was the honor code and each professor's faith and trust in our integrity. That culture was enough to not cheat. The decline of actual consequences for cheating has played a big role. When I was in college, people who got caught cheating found themselves in a world of trouble. Repeat offenders faced severe consequences like failing courses, which could delay their graduation date if it…

> When I was in college, people who got caught cheating found themselves in a world of trouble. Repeat offenders faced severe consequences like failing courses, which could delay their graduation date

We had a very real threat of rustication. People still cheated. I think culture does play a big role. Of course, there need to be consequences too.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#389

Post by tqi »

BinRoo wrote: post #167

> In the AI era... Back in my day, you could also just Google the problems and find the solutions. What mitigated cheating at UVA was the honor code and each professor's faith and trust in our integrity. That culture was enough to not cheat. Imo, the fix should be to work on culture. Cheating should always be a tempting choice, so that the student may challenge their integrity, which is a muscle that can atrophy.

I agree with the sentiment, however I think the erosion of the honor system is inevitable given the rising cost of college. Somewhere in the last 20 years college became a luxury good, and with it a natural sense of entitlement from their customers.

Couple that with increased awareness that classroom instruction (delivered by tenured research facility who seem annoyed at the idea of teaching) often has little relevance to workplace skills, I think kids have correctly surmised that the smart thing to do is say fuck the code and focus on checking boxes.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#390

Post by userbinator »

MengerSponge wrote: post #378
userbinator wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Do you care at all about the reputation of your university? I worked briefly in post-secondary CS education a long time ago, before academia turned into the ideological warzone it is today, and if I said such a thing, I would've probably lost my job. Also, grades have long been inflated Then stop inflating them. This is also what standardised testing is good for --- but no surprise, so many are against it becaus…

Good idea! Nothing bad could possibly come from advocating for centralization of academic assessment! Let's give more authority to a handful of private publishers who adapt their curricula to the whims of Texas! It's not just because "it would just show how terrible they actually are"

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