Live data from Hacker News

The curious case of the disappearing Polish S (2015)

aresluna.org

71–80 of 122 posts

Re: The curious case of the disappearing Polish S (2015)

#72
post #39
post #2

I believe the fact that Polish uses the Latin alphabet (with a small Slavic twist to express the extra sounds) meant it was much easier for Poland to align itself westward. I think the average Pole is much closer culturally to the Western neighbours than to a Ukrainian or Russian (maybe apart from cuisine).

Like Kazakhstan, which decided to switch from Cyrillic to the Latin alphabet [1] in order to align more with Europe and less with Russia. I wonder if Ukraine will do the same in a distant future... [1] https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20180424-the-cost-of-ch...

Curiously enough, Romanian, though a Romance language, was also spelt with the Cyrillic alphabet. Probably because we were under the Bulgarian empire (the ones who invented Cyrillic).

In the 1800s when we switched to Latin, it didn't happen abruptly, there were several intermediary alphabets which mixed Latin an Cyrillic[1].

Example:

    ши се варсъ (Cyrillic) 
    шi se вapsъ (transition alphabet)
    și se varsă (Latin)
    ʃi se varsə (IPA for reference)
When Russia annexed eastern Moldova, it forced them to switch back to Cyrillic, but with a monstrous alphabet derived from Russian instead of the old Romanian alphabet. The Russians forced Romanians to use this:

    ши се варсэ
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_transitional_alphabet

Re: The curious case of the disappearing Polish S (2015)

#73
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Pole I never had this issue. Why would you even use US Intl keyboard. Even for Arch with install everything manually I haven't any issues

> Why would you even use US Intl keyboard Because (for some reason) you don't have your "standard" keyboard - just the US ISO one Some keyboards have an extra key (or maybe more than one) and hence can't be mapped fully with a US keyboard

I don't get it. In Poland we use exclusively US keyboard layout. To type Polish characters we have key combinations with AltGr (as TFA explained in a lot of detail).

Re: The curious case of the disappearing Polish S (2015)

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine absolutely must ditch Cyrillic alphabet, after the war. There will be plenty of things to change.

I sometimes hear the same in my circles about Persian ditching the perso-arabic script. I don't get it, why can't you align a country however you like without creating a huge rift between a big population and years of literature, material etc etc? One can learn multiple scripts and almost all literate people know the latin script globally nowadays. Besides, sad to see the whole world just use the latin script in the…

> without creating a huge rift between a big population and years of literature, material etc etc

Sometimes, that is the point.

Re: The curious case of the disappearing Polish S (2015)

#75
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how surprised Americans would be to learn that there are so many "centers of Europe". After all, we all know that Colorado is in "the west", Texas in the "southwest", and, clearly, "the South" is located in the geographical southeast :D

And my favorite -- you need to go north from Miami to be in "the South"

Miami is a latin American city that happens to be part of the US.

Re: The curious case of the disappearing Polish S (2015)

#77
post #2

I believe the fact that Polish uses the Latin alphabet (with a small Slavic twist to express the extra sounds) meant it was much easier for Poland to align itself westward. I think the average Pole is much closer culturally to the Western neighbours than to a Ukrainian or Russian (maybe apart from cuisine).

The adoption of the Latin alphabet was itself a move to align itself westward, with kingdoms in the Latin world, not the Byzantine one, and tied to adopting Catholicism rather than Orthodoxy.

In fact, the Slavic countries which use Latin are all predominantly Catholic, with Bosnia being an outlier in using both Latin and Cyrillic while also being roughly half Muslim.

Re: The curious case of the disappearing Polish S (2015)

#78

Fun fact: when treated with unicode Normalization Form Canonical Decomposition, 8 out of 9 polish letters (ż,ó,ć,ę,ś,ą,ź,ń) break down into base letter + combining diacritical mark, but ł stays intact. That means you can't use sqlite's unicode61 remove_diacritics tokenizer to normalize polish text for FTS.

I remember discovering that while writing some code for a job interview. The reason for it is simple, even though in many input systems (like the ABC International I use on my Macs) it’s a two-character sequence to enter ł, there is not actually a combining character for that line through the l. I’m not sure, but I think sqlite’s remove_diacritics works the way that I’ve implemented that functionality in some of my own software: convert to NCD then remove combining characters from the string. I would expect that a few other special cases also behave the same way, such as ħ or ø which also will not decompose.

Re: The curious case of the disappearing Polish S (2015)

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?

Open Source puts the onus on the user to know what they are doing. The learning curve is not too vertical on the established components, but stand by on the New Shiny.

And how does it relate to Medium?

Re: The curious case of the disappearing Polish S (2015)

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why. A lot of Western Poland used to be German, and it's not like there's one German cuisine either. You don't get many Bavarians eating pickled herring with beets, but's it's classic cuisine in Berlin.

Western Poland used to be German, but all the Germans left/got expelled. After WW2 it was resettled with Poles from Eastern Poland, nowadays Ukraine and Belarus. Which makes traveling from Berlin to Poznan or Wroclaw an interesting experience. Directly at the German-Polish border, you'll enter Eastern Europe, then when you arrive in the mentioned cities, you're suddenly back in Central Europe. Also, you'd be surprise…

You can also get jiaozi and tempura shrimp at the Oktoberfest, that doesn't make them traditional Alpine food.

> Directly at the German-Polish border, you'll enter Eastern Europe, then when you arrive in the mentioned cities, you're suddenly back in Central Europe.

I mean I get that impression even before crossing the border to Poland. It's just very rural and not exactly wealthy on either side of the border.

Post reply on HN