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Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

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Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#61

Post by [deleted] »

alex43578 wrote: post #45
musicale wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A master's in CS can teach you interesting and very useful things, like how OS kernels, distributed systems, networks, and microprocessors work. A master's in EE will teach you things like signal processing and analog circuit design as well. Knowing these things helps you to design, build, and evaluate systems that are reliable and efficient. A master's in science helps you understand how the physical world works and…

There should be no reason you have to jump to a master’s for that. A bachelor’s in CS or EE would be a joke if it didn’t (doesn’t) cover those things. Arguably, even the current 4 year bachelor’s is a waste compared to a focused 2 year program: looking at my college’s requirements, many classes are wasted. Business majors taking a physical science with lab component, entry level English classes being taught by a TA t…

[deleted]

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#62

Post by gchallen »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #57

In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. I have written an article on how I have adjusted my classes to the situation: https://htmx.org/essays/universities-and-ai/ Ironically, I think the AI era may make university degrees a better signal of the intellectual abilities of students due to the presence of pre-computer infrastructure like large lecture halls, industrial-scale copiers, etc.

There are limits to what you can assess on timed assessments, and there are students whose performance on such assessments is not a good signal of their intellectual ability.

In addition, at many institutions such tests are given infrequently and can be worth a significant component of a student's overall grade, increasing both student stress levels and the tendency for such assessments to measure short term knowledge students have obtained by cramming, not more meaningful longer-term knowledge gains.

I see you're giving quizzes every three weeks, which is better than twice a semester, but still not what I would consider an ideal cadence. In my course weekly computer-based quizzes comprise 70% of a student's grade, but that's supported by a significant institutional investment in high-frequency computer-based testing: https://cbtf.illinois.edu/.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#63

Post by BeetleB »

userbinator wrote: post #49

take-home, closed-book type What an oxymoron. I agree with the others here that AI isn't the problem.

I've had such exams. It was the honor system. The idea is that a typical exam is too short to evaluate the student's knowledge and a belief that fast students shouldn't have an advantage.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#64

Post by throawayonthe »

danny_codes wrote: post #7

Damn that's crazy. Guess the take home test is dead now. I never understood this behavior from undergrads though, you're paying so much for an education and then you just skip the education part? Why bother?

i mean, even if you are truly there for learning, doesn't it make sense in a low risk setting to try and boost your grade? it's different if you're cheating on your homework or other learning, but there isn't much learning left to do on the exam, that's for the grade

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#65

Post by nitwit005 »

dgellow wrote: post #51
nitwit005 wrote: post #24

These articles consistently fail to acknowledge students were cheating in large numbers prior to these AI tools being available. It was certainly not difficult to cheat at a "closed book" take home exam before.

Different magnitude of cheating altogether

I was in a class where around 12% of the class got caught directly copying a journal assignment. I'm sure more went undetected. AI has made it easier, but it's in the same magnitude.

Edit: typo

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#66

Post by sourcecodeplz »

gchallen wrote: post #62
recursivedoubts wrote: post #57

In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. I have written an article on how I have adjusted my classes to the situation: https://htmx.org/essays/universities-and-ai/ Ironically, I think the AI era may make university degrees a better signal of the intellectual abilities of students due to the presence of pre-computer infrastructure like large lecture halls, industrial-scale copiers, etc.

There are limits to what you can assess on timed assessments, and there are students whose performance on such assessments is not a good signal of their intellectual ability. In addition, at many institutions such tests are given infrequently and can be worth a significant component of a student's overall grade, increasing both student stress levels and the tendency for such assessments to measure short term knowledg…

so let say you give the students a pop-quiz. is that not acceptable anymore because some students don't do well when surprised?

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#67

Post by raverbashing »

BeetleB wrote: post #63
userbinator wrote: post #49

take-home, closed-book type What an oxymoron. I agree with the others here that AI isn't the problem.

I've had such exams. It was the honor system. The idea is that a typical exam is too short to evaluate the student's knowledge and a belief that fast students shouldn't have an advantage.

There's a way. But if your professor is confident AI won't help you too much then it's a very hard test

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#68

Post by rfergie »

gchallen wrote: post #62
recursivedoubts wrote: post #57

In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. I have written an article on how I have adjusted my classes to the situation: https://htmx.org/essays/universities-and-ai/ Ironically, I think the AI era may make university degrees a better signal of the intellectual abilities of students due to the presence of pre-computer infrastructure like large lecture halls, industrial-scale copiers, etc.

There are limits to what you can assess on timed assessments, and there are students whose performance on such assessments is not a good signal of their intellectual ability. In addition, at many institutions such tests are given infrequently and can be worth a significant component of a student's overall grade, increasing both student stress levels and the tendency for such assessments to measure short term knowledg…

> there are students whose performance on such assessments is not a good signal of their intellectual ability

Is there a form of assessment that is a good signal of the intellectual ability of all students?

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#69

Post by gchallen »

> He has conclusive evidence that at least 50 students cheated on the March midterm exam, making it the biggest known scandal at Brown and in the entire Ivy League

I'd like a citation for this being the "biggest known scandal" in the "entire Ivy League". Frequently such situations are kept somewhat quiet, for a variety of reasons. But fifty students is not a large number in courses that can enroll hundreds or up to a thousand students.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#70

Post by Ekaros »

BeetleB wrote: post #63
userbinator wrote: post #49

take-home, closed-book type What an oxymoron. I agree with the others here that AI isn't the problem.

I've had such exams. It was the honor system. The idea is that a typical exam is too short to evaluate the student's knowledge and a belief that fast students shouldn't have an advantage.

I really don't see how it would cost too much to pay TAs some more proctor hours.
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