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EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

patrick-breyer.de

271–280 of 463 posts

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And at least people are not shot in the streets by the police for protesting...

Well no.. just handcuffed and left to die after being stabbed (while the perpetrators face no consequences).

> (while the perpetrators face no consequences).

Bullshit!

Vickrum Digwa, the perpetrator of that crime, was jailed for life with a minimum sentence review time of 21 years.

What's more it's thought that sentence is unduly lenient so it's being reviewed to make is stronger.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1d2w411rgro

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#272
People are getting real EU fatigue from both sides of the spectrum. The attacks on privacy are the most concerning, the members of the high level group pushing for ChatControl and other surveillance state measures are still anonymous, while the Commissioner's Pfizer chats are still nowhere to be found--not that they would be subjected to the same surveillance as the little people. The needs of those bureaucrats sitting in their glass windowed buildings--with AC still running on their tallest floors where the commission staff works, while shut down on the lower ones--clearly do not match what the average person wants or expects. How much can they push it further? They're only adding fuel to the fire that will replace them with something just as bad, if not worse. It's hard not to be skeptical considering the exceptional level of lobbying steering regulations. The latest is the utterly idiotic, anti-consumer de minimis threshold changes, with an incomprehensible "per category" fee on every purchase outside the EU, lobbied for by EuroCommerce, killing entire hobbyist fields (e.g. anything to do with electronics) in the continent.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#273
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law enforcement at all levels traditionally has a strong lobbying presence. Their public affairs departments are well-funded and do not cease operations just because some initiatives are delayed due to temporary push back. Transparency legislation often does not apply to their efforts either.

Wait, law enforcement is part of the government. Why is there not a push to zero out their funding for lobbying?

Europol lobbies this with tax euros:

Overcoming the complex challenges outlined above requires multifaceted policy considerations that focus on both societal resilience and enabling effective law enforcement within the EU’s robust legal framework. Key actions should include:

Establishing lawful access by design to E2EE communication channels in cooperation with service providers and regulators.

https://www.europol.europa.eu/media-press/newsroom/news/stea...

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call decentralization and „so successful“ resulted in constant wars and conflicts. Europe would be in a way worse place right now without some form of union like the EU

Those constant wars and conflicts were what pushed European countries to develop the military technologies that allowed them to conquer most of the world.

Are you defending colonization, or am I misunderstanding you? When you say conquer, I think you mean invade, genocide, enslave, subject most of the world. We also killed each others for the most petty reasons ever instead of working towards a common goal

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#275
post #69

So are they going to ban encrypted email? I am rather sure i could cobble together a chat UI whose backend was just email protocol. It would be needlessly complex, but all that ISPs would see is yet more encrypted email going back and forth.

The recent times showed us that technical solutions are bananas. Guardrails must be put at the constitution level, or any tech bypass can be just declared illegal.

[dead]

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#276
post #192

A blanket control affecting privacy would be bad. However we need controls that can prevent criminals from hiding behind anonymity and being able to organize massive activities just with a few online posts. These days it is trivial to organize and radicalize the youth into wrong paths overnight using social channels. You just need to say something that aligns with their problems, and most people get consumed by the d…

[deleted]

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#277
post #220
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean the migrant crisis stirred up things? The anti immigration position in danish politics has been a winning position since the mid 00's.

What is funny is that it has been pushed by the social democrats. See also what Labour have been doing in UK. Whatever we call centre-left today we would have placed much further to right a couple decades ago. At this point even the US Democrats are more progressive than our EU "liberal" parties.

The whole left vs right is a useless caricature. And it’s especially meaningless when comparing ideologies across country borders. Better talk in terms of policies.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#278
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

inundated with advertising, unwanted cookies, unnecessary JavaScript, false news, scams, I’d rather have that instead of govt monitoring of all communications. Your govt can hurt you more than any of those things. Especially in the EU given what happened just a few decades ago.

Remember that scandal about that subcontractor for Apple which installed suicide nets after thirteen workers died and another five attempted suicide by jumping off buildings? But no, corporations good, government bad. At least when it comes to government I get to vote. Even better: I'm Belgian, I HAVE to vote, it's not just a right, it's a civic duty. What, when it comes to corporations I can 'vote with my wallet'? I…

> What, when it comes to corporations I can 'vote with my wallet'? I'm sure Apple, whose profits exceed those of some developed countries, will surely change their ways if I boycott them over stuff like the Uyghur slave shops.

Your argument is that voting with your wallet doesn't change things even if it reduces the profits of the company by an amount proportional to the number of people who do it, but voting in an election does where not only is your vote is still diluted by millions of other people, the result is all-or-nothing and the party/candidate doing the thing you didn't like can still retain full control of the government even after losing a couple percent of the vote?

It's the same problem in both cases. What you need is enough viable alternatives that you can pick the one doing the right thing instead of being given a fake choice between two or three "alternatives" that are all doing the wrong thing. And markets with hundreds of competitors are a lot more common than elections with hundreds of candidates/parties on the ballot.

One big thing you need a government to actually do is break up consolidated markets, and the current ones are evidently ineffective at it.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#279
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While the EU is not perfect and surely needs improvement in many areas, it is still better than not having it. Would you still believe this if Chat Control got though? What good did the EU bring that's good enough to make up for the badness of everyone in Europe having all their private digital communications constantly scanned?

> What good did the EU bring that's good enough to make up for the badness of everyone in Europe having all their private digital communications constantly scanned? Peace in Europe. You have to remember that the EU is fundamentally the world's most successful peace project, founded after the horrors of WW2 to make war in Europe not just unthinkable, but materially impossible. Before the EU, we had centuries of consta…

> You have to remember that the EU is fundamentally the world's most successful peace project, founded after the horrors of WW2 to make war in Europe not just unthinkable, but materially impossible.

You're confusing the EU with NATO. Germany is already planning on re-arming[^1] because NATO is dead. The EU is by all means an unfinished project and if I had to bet, I would bet that it won't survive the next two decades. There's no pro-EU majority in any European country right now. Not one. It's a great idea, very poorly implement that gets (some times unfairly, some times fairly) all the blame for everything wrong with Europe right now. Migration, energy, housing, etc.

[1^]: https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2026/04/22/germany...

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#280
post #272

People are getting real EU fatigue from both sides of the spectrum. The attacks on privacy are the most concerning, the members of the high level group pushing for ChatControl and other surveillance state measures are still anonymous, while the Commissioner's Pfizer chats are still nowhere to be found--not that they would be subjected to the same surveillance as the little people. The needs of those bureaucrats sitti…

And people are surprised of the rise of far right, especially anti EU one
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