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EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

patrick-breyer.de

251–260 of 463 posts

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#251

So are they going to ban encrypted email? I am rather sure i could cobble together a chat UI whose backend was just email protocol. It would be needlessly complex, but all that ISPs would see is yet more encrypted email going back and forth.

They’ll just criminalise private encryption for communication afterwards.

Yeah I agree they will put people to prison for trying to get around chat control

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#252
post #99
post #2

First, why does the EU leadership refuse to learn from falling behind the US economically and technologically, most starkly with AI recently, and their failures in regulating the Internet, most annoyingly the cookie law? And why aren't you, the EU citizen, more annoyed by it? I see a lot of pro-EU content on this site when they're terrible on both tech and entrepreneurship. Second, what's up with Denmmark pushing for…

While the EU is not perfect and surely needs improvement in many areas, it is still better than not having it. This is why you see a lot of pro-EU content: many people here (myself included) are of the opinion that the EU needs to be improved, not dismantled.

Yes, you are right, the only two possible choices are to either give the government an absolute mandate to spy on every citizen, or to abolish the EU altogether, no other option is possible.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#253
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just outright wrong. Europe in general has gotten less and less violent over the last decade. Despite evils like the internet, smartphones, and tiktok. I'd argue it has become more difficult to rile up people than it was 40 years ago

You are free to 'argue', but you need to read about how the modern riots are being organized on a massive scale, so that you can correct your argument.

Petition to force everyone saying "you need to read about XYZ" to provide at least 2 sources where one can actually read about XYZ.

- If you can't provide any sources, it's safe to assume you don't actually know what you're talking about. - If you can, but choose not to, why? This simply weakens your argument. - When you say "you need to read about XYZ", you probably WANT people to read about this, right? So why not point them at least to Wikipedia?

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#254
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All my devices supported USB-C before the EU regulation. I don't have this particular problem so it doesn't exist! It did exist for huge amounts of people. At the time, many manufacturers had proprietary plugs and would still have them if it weren't for this decision. > The USB-C standard is not the best standard that can exist from now to the end of the universe Which is why the law can be simply amended as soon a…

> simply amended as soon as such a standard emerges That statement just makes no sense. How can a new standard emerge when legally there is no option to validate its actually superior in the market? > figures out something better That’s not how it works. Most innovation does not occur in committees but through trial and error.

Same as before? A group like Intel, Microsoft and a few more create a new standard and can get the eu to adopt it. Which popular cabling standard wasn't designed by one of the big ones?

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#255
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just outright wrong. Europe in general has gotten less and less violent over the last decade. Despite evils like the internet, smartphones, and tiktok. I'd argue it has become more difficult to rile up people than it was 40 years ago

You are free to 'argue', but you need to read about how the modern riots are being organized on a massive scale, so that you can correct your argument.

how are modern riots being organized on a massive scale? I'm curious

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#256
post #232
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> privacy does not matter when there are rampant black operations being conducted which violates human dignity in every sense of the term. You have this completely backwards. The threat and existence of such operations is one of the fundamental reasons privacy does matter so much. Privacy is to be protected heavily not just for the now but for what could happen in the future, and it's self-reinforcing. A more privacy…

I think I understand what you are saying, let me reply with an example in which I think 'privacy' is harmful. Lets say military intelligence has multiple NATO hospitals compromised, and have assets in these hospitals which are being used for various black operations (including non-medical neurosurgery on literal children). In this scenario, maybe total societal surveillance, including radical transparency, would have…

OK, setting aside the possibility this is some sort of joke/sarcasm I can't quite get, and the absolute wtf of this "scenario" which doesn't exist and all the ways it cannot exist with nothing to with privacy, and taking it sorta seriously, your argument completely falls down here amongst other places:

>Lets say military intelligence has multiple NATO hospitals compromised, and have assets in these hospitals which are being used for various black operations (including non-medical neurosurgery on literal children). In this scenario, maybe total societal surveillance, including radical transparency, would have been a nice thing to have in regards to bolstering national security?

Why the heck would you think that the first job of a hostile military intelligence wouldn't be TO COMPROMISE THE TOTAL SOCIETAL SURVEILLANCE NETWORK!?!? There is a sort of really fundamental common failure to this kind of conspiracy thinking, wherein simultaneously your opponent is this incredibly powerful and skilled entity, one that in this case can compromise lots of secured aspects of society and insert actual agents into a hospital for illegal child surgery and escape notice. Yet simultaneously they're complete idiots who don't do the obvious, obvious job #1, job #2, and job #3 of an intelligence agency which is seek to compromise your enemy's intelligence agencies! Duh. It always has been. Counter intelligence and trying to get inside the other agency's decision loops has rich history probably for as long as spying has been done.

Why do you think you can secure this incredibly invasive theoretical network, all evidence from our entire history to the contrary, yet not medical service providers? You've literally built something here that your enemy would desperately love to have! You've done their entire job for them, better than they could! Rather then having to try to compromise endless distributed independently secured private and public organizations, now they just have to compromise a single one and they get the keys to the kingdom.

>Instead, we got HIPAA, and other medical privacy laws/standards, which are aiding literal mass atrocity to continue to proliferate.

This is such schizobabble that makes no sense (HIPAA has nothing to with law enforcement or medical ethics boards or a million other checks on the health system, just for starters) that I don't know what else to do beyond urging you to seek some alternatives to wherever you got this from.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#257
post #40

What's to point of all this? Everyone will use Signal or some other E2E encrypted messenger, this is just bone tossing. Useless politicans spending time on useless things.

So the EU will just tell Apple and Google to remove Signal from their app stores and 95-99% of the population won’t bother figuring out it exists..

And as always, the only people who will bother will be the few% who are involved in some sort of illegal activity.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#258
post #58

The global push to kill privacy makes me sad. Feels like I grew up in a golden age and subsequent generations won't care because they never knew a different world

alright, but the important query is: this isn't happening in a vacuum, there's a lot of various forces. Lets say the primary force we need to prevent is russian influence campaigns that back and push far right nationalists who will destabilize democracy. Is that a sufficient reason for controls? It's always curious what people think about the actual content that's typically pushing these things.

seems like a lot of people either know way to much about the paradox of tolerance and how to wield it against people's best interest; or know nothing about it.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#259
post #248

Instead of the usual knee-jerk it would be nice to see some level-header analysis on mechanics of these things - who pays for the time of the people that decide to push this particular piece of legislation, how they manage to get into the door, who personally makes the proposal, how they gather support for it.

Law enforcement at all levels traditionally has a strong lobbying presence. Their public affairs departments are well-funded and do not cease operations just because some initiatives are delayed due to temporary push back. Transparency legislation often does not apply to their efforts either.

Wait, law enforcement is part of the government. Why is there not a push to zero out their funding for lobbying?

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#260
post #192

A blanket control affecting privacy would be bad. However we need controls that can prevent criminals from hiding behind anonymity and being able to organize massive activities just with a few online posts. These days it is trivial to organize and radicalize the youth into wrong paths overnight using social channels. You just need to say something that aligns with their problems, and most people get consumed by the d…

Criminals will just side-step the law and use methods of communication that allow them carry on committing crimes.

If it was possible to outlaw crime we would have no crime already. We had riots in 70s, 80s and 90s too after all.

Meanwhile politicians get to strip the innocent of their privacy, which is very handy for them.

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