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EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#241

Post by zkmon »

trallnag wrote: post #229
zkmon wrote: post #192

A blanket control affecting privacy would be bad. However we need controls that can prevent criminals from hiding behind anonymity and being able to organize massive activities just with a few online posts. These days it is trivial to organize and radicalize the youth into wrong paths overnight using social channels. You just need to say something that aligns with their problems, and most people get consumed by the d…

This is just outright wrong. Europe in general has gotten less and less violent over the last decade. Despite evils like the internet, smartphones, and tiktok. I'd argue it has become more difficult to rile up people than it was 40 years ago

You are free to 'argue', but you need to read about how the modern riots are being organized on a massive scale, so that you can correct your argument.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#243

Post by betaby »

shevy-java wrote: post #173
Havoc wrote: post #58

The global push to kill privacy makes me sad. Feels like I grew up in a golden age and subsequent generations won't care because they never knew a different world

It's not just killing privacy though. Democracy is undermined here by big money.

What 'big money' you have in mind in this very specific case?

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#244

Post by frankharv »

intended wrote: post #185
theshrike79 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up when everyone was saying "don't post your face, name or address on the internet" - and that's what I've done. There are a total of maybe 3-6 pictures of me on the internet and my real name isn't attached to most of my brainfarts online. It's not that I hide it like a secret agent, I just don't shove my face and name next to every opinion I have. But the younger generations... They grew up with Snapchat whic…

I still remember conversations here on HN, around the time Facebook was launched. It was considered insanity that you would give up your privacy to a firm. I remember how that what seemed absurdly risky, meant absolutely nothing to the average person, and the astronomic value Facebook began to accumulate. I wonder if it wasn't social media that set up the death spiral of the internet. The walled gardens on content an…

I didn't see it that way. when Facebook started it was like an intimate club.

Classmates.com was charging money for reunion information and Facebook was free.

It was the IPO that really tipped the scales.

In that one day Zuck became a Billionaire with everybody else's information.

We were bamboozled. Subscription versus free but not really.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#245

Post by monssooon »

dgellow wrote: post #6
blfr wrote: post #2

First, why does the EU leadership refuse to learn from falling behind the US economically and technologically, most starkly with AI recently, and their failures in regulating the Internet, most annoyingly the cookie law? And why aren't you, the EU citizen, more annoyed by it? I see a lot of pro-EU content on this site when they're terrible on both tech and entrepreneurship. Second, what's up with Denmmark pushing for…

The population doesn’t support chat control. The European Parliament rejected the chat control proposal earlier this year. Now it seems that the European Parliament president is trying to bypass that

Well put

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#246

Post by wolvesechoes »

latency-guy2 wrote: post #208
thegrimmest wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a hot take, but I don't know that "privacy" and "anonymity" are the same thing, or that the latter is worth preserving. I would very much like to live in a world where everyone stood by everything they said online with their real identity, just as they already do in the real world. This was already the case for all of human history until the information age. If you wanted to say something, you had to physically…

> If every potential mate and employer was able to review everything you've ever posted online, we'd all be much more careful with what we say, much better able to screen out bad actors, and the wold would be a better place for it. This is stalking and is illegal. Are there any other crimes you want to claim as righteous? Presuming you want stalking to be repealed and permissible, you have quite a few bars to pass th…

> This is stalking and is illegal. Are there any other crimes you want to claim as righteous?

What is legal and what is right very rarely went together, so rather poor argument.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#247

Post by vrganj »

logicchains wrote: post #109
GTP wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the EU is not perfect and surely needs improvement in many areas, it is still better than not having it. This is why you see a lot of pro-EU content: many people here (myself included) are of the opinion that the EU needs to be improved, not dismantled.

>While the EU is not perfect and surely needs improvement in many areas, it is still better than not having it. Would you still believe this if Chat Control got though? What good did the EU bring that's good enough to make up for the badness of everyone in Europe having all their private digital communications constantly scanned?

> What good did the EU bring that's good enough to make up for the badness of everyone in Europe having all their private digital communications constantly scanned?

Peace in Europe. You have to remember that the EU is fundamentally the world's most successful peace project, founded after the horrors of WW2 to make war in Europe not just unthinkable, but materially impossible.

Before the EU, we had centuries of constantly being at each others throats. There hasn't been armed conflict between EU members and there won't be for as long as it exists. It worked. It broke the cycle of generation after generation of horrible slaughter.

Chat Control is obviously bad. But fundamentally, the good of peace outweighs even that.

However, one should also note that Chat Control is pushed by the member states and their representatives - the EU is actually the institution that's kept it at bay so far.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#248

Post by fwn »

kachurovskiy wrote: post #63

Instead of the usual knee-jerk it would be nice to see some level-header analysis on mechanics of these things - who pays for the time of the people that decide to push this particular piece of legislation, how they manage to get into the door, who personally makes the proposal, how they gather support for it.

Law enforcement at all levels traditionally has a strong lobbying presence. Their public affairs departments are well-funded and do not cease operations just because some initiatives are delayed due to temporary push back. Transparency legislation often does not apply to their efforts either.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#249

Post by amszmidt »

zkmon wrote: post #241
trallnag wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just outright wrong. Europe in general has gotten less and less violent over the last decade. Despite evils like the internet, smartphones, and tiktok. I'd argue it has become more difficult to rile up people than it was 40 years ago

You are free to 'argue', but you need to read about how the modern riots are being organized on a massive scale, so that you can correct your argument.

Would love to see some statistics on that.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#250

Post by uraglwngr »

zkmon wrote: post #192

A blanket control affecting privacy would be bad. However we need controls that can prevent criminals from hiding behind anonymity and being able to organize massive activities just with a few online posts. These days it is trivial to organize and radicalize the youth into wrong paths overnight using social channels. You just need to say something that aligns with their problems, and most people get consumed by the d…

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