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Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

engadget.com

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Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#211

Post by treis »

microgpt wrote: post #126
christoph wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Fascism should rightly be called corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.” - Benito Mussolini

Nah. Fascism only tolerates one power, that being itself. It can emerge from either the state or corporate side, and necessarily subsumes or destroys the other, just as it subsumes or destroys unions, families, friend networks, communications, and anything else that can establish power. That doesn't mean the merger of two of them is the defining feature.

That’s true of every system of government

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#213

Post by infecto »

15155 wrote: post #209
infecto wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the cops can access the private land cameras. I would wager most small to conglomerate level business opt-in. Last I checked the Lowes and Walmarts of the US share this data as its locks down shoplifters quicker.

> But the cops can access the private land cameras. Not for free, they can't. Flock isn't a charity. So your local cops can't get the data, but others can.

Hmm when I was in discussion with a couple different flock deployments that’s not how the arrangement works. The customer (not the police), the entity paying for the camera can opt in to sharing the data with local police. Under that arrangement the police did not pay for anything. Now certainly cities and police agencies may have their own deployment but the camera is the product the feature benefit is the data share. Maybe it’s change since I last was looking at it.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#215

Post by SilverElfin »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #2

Yeah, I'm not a fan of these things. If they were just ALPRs, I could probably give them a bit of slack -if they tightened up their security-, but all the other stuff they do, makes them pretty much untenable. However: > This makes AI powered cameras like Flock's distinct from traditional surveillance or traffic cams, which require someone to manually look over footage in order to find a specific vehicle or individua…

Personally I don’t mind having Flock cameras or other surveillance to make it easier to stop crime. Right now in many cities there is simply no consequence for various crimes - especially property crimes. But I want these tools to be protected - requiring imminent danger or warrants for access. I don’t think the answer is to get rid of them entirely.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#216

Post by pack_stimulus »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #14

Meanwhile in Texas we can’t even have red light cameras to automatically ticket people willing to kill you just to catch a light.

That is ridiculous. Some level of surveillance is necessary to bring the society closer to the optimal state.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#217

Post by microgpt »

treis wrote: post #211
microgpt wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. Fascism only tolerates one power, that being itself. It can emerge from either the state or corporate side, and necessarily subsumes or destroys the other, just as it subsumes or destroys unions, families, friend networks, communications, and anything else that can establish power. That doesn't mean the merger of two of them is the defining feature.

That’s true of every system of government

No. Power can be delegated. I'd say capitalism puts ultimate power on the government who delegates power to holders of capital. (If that stops, it's not capitalism any more)

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#218

Post by tptacek »

StayHuman wrote: post #203
Cider9986 wrote: post #105

They're also getting banned fast. The city level should be the most accessible government for change. There's been over 70[1] documented wins. Don't feel like this is a lost cause, it clearly isn't. If everyone who was going to comment on this thread instead or additionally got involved by going to a city council meeting and explaining the problems to friends/family, many more cities could reject them. [1] https://de…

Trying to push back on this in my local community, two things I have found, below. Hopefully helpful to others. 1) I tried posting on Craigslist's "Community" section, in a simple attempt to reach out and connect with others who may be concerned. The posts were automatically blocked before even being published on the site. I tried multiple versions of this (i.e. with links and without, with pictures and without, etc.…

I don't know where you live, but if you lived in Chicagoland the advice for how to engage on this would be easy: there are 1-4 (depending on your muni) Facebook groups where all the meaningful policy discussion happens. Hold your nose and log into Facebook and look.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#219

Post by guelo »

tptacek wrote: post #168
Cider9986 wrote: post #105

They're also getting banned fast. The city level should be the most accessible government for change. There's been over 70[1] documented wins. Don't feel like this is a lost cause, it clearly isn't. If everyone who was going to comment on this thread instead or additionally got involved by going to a city council meeting and explaining the problems to friends/family, many more cities could reject them. [1] https://de…

They're not getting banned fast, and regulation isn't a lost cause. Flock, in particular, is getting contracts cancelled primarily in ultra-liberal municipalities, and that's in large part because of their public relationship with the current federal administration. But ALPRs are going up everywhere; they're a commodity technology. We canceled our Flock contract (I wasn't psyched about that) and we're ringed by munis…

I got caught by an ALPR 20 years ago. I've been confused about 1) what is Flock's innovation 2) why are people up in arm.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#220

Post by tptacek »

infecto wrote: post #206
randusername wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had success in our county and town canceling contracts, but that doesn't mean they are banned from private land. I'm not totally sure, but it may even be the stupidest of all possible outcomes: they still exist, the cops can't access them, and their only value is selling private information.

But the cops can access the private land cameras. I would wager most small to conglomerate level business opt-in. Last I checked the Lowes and Walmarts of the US share this data as its locks down shoplifters quicker.

Police cannot access privately-owned Flock cameras unless the owners authorize them to do so, or a court orders it (in the same sense that a court can order access to any information on any device).
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