Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

patrick-breyer.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 463 posts

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#151

Post by GTP »

logicchains wrote: post #109
GTP wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the EU is not perfect and surely needs improvement in many areas, it is still better than not having it. This is why you see a lot of pro-EU content: many people here (myself included) are of the opinion that the EU needs to be improved, not dismantled.

>While the EU is not perfect and surely needs improvement in many areas, it is still better than not having it. Would you still believe this if Chat Control got though? What good did the EU bring that's good enough to make up for the badness of everyone in Europe having all their private digital communications constantly scanned?

Yes, definitely. Just as an example, my country wouldn't have a lot of consumer protection laws we now have thanks to the EU. As a concrete example, there used to be a single phone service provider acting as a monopolist and we had the highest phone bills in the EU. When this started to change, it still wasn't possible to keep the same phone number when switching providers, which is a huge thing for businesses and freelancers. The EU forced our government to change this. And I'm not even talking about all the financial help that we got from the EU. Which, admittedly, was used poorly by my politicians. But this isn't the EU's fault, it's their fault.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#152

Post by consensus1 »

kmeisthax wrote: post #86
jltsiren wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time, when "the EU" is doing something bad, it's actually the national governments wearing a different hat. The Parliament is pretty reasonable on the average, while the national policicians in the Council take advantage of the ignorance of the public. They can pursue their favorite policies without consequences, as the EU gets all the blame.

As an extension of this, look at the European Commission's response to the Stop Destroying Videogames[0] petition. It's utter dogshit. The petition is a pure consumer protection issue and the Commission's response is "but we can't touch IP rights". Bullshit, you guys made IP rights, you wrote all the rules surrounding them, and Donald Trump is about to drown you with them because America's tech oligarchs figured out…

Well of course it's about building data centers. There are exactly 3 options for you:

1. use "giant polluting AI data centers" in the US or China

2. build "giant polluting AI data centers" in the EU

3. do without modern technology

Option 1 fails at "how do we take our data back from the Americans" and option 3 is insanity and will fail at the ballot box. So get ready for option 2.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#153

Post by surgical_fire »

ttoinou wrote: post #76
hoppp wrote: post #57

They just can't let it go. Is it democracy if they keep pushing agendas even if they are voted down?

It's an open secret the european union has nothing to do with the will of the people

This is bullshit. The EU parliament is the organ that shot it down so far.

Read the article. It is the national governments pushing this shit. They try to launder if through the EU because passing those legislations locally would likely be very unpopular.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#154

Post by mantas »

wqaatwt wrote: post #92
blfr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know they've been pushing for this when they're pretty reasonable and independent on other issues. How come?

Ar they, though? The established longterm consensus is pretty reasonable in the EU, it’s not self evident that things have been going in the right direction on the whole in recent years.

Is it?

The green deal stuff seems to be pretty bad. Manufacturing seems to have a hard time. The next tier economy, e.g. AI, is not seen on the horizon. Over-the-top regulations for agriculture and then opening up the market from goods where such regulations don't exist does not seem smart either.

And there're lots and lots of small things like those.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#156

Post by m4nu3l »

GTP wrote: post #139
m4nu3l wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have this particular problem, so it doesn't exist! No, what I said is that you could find devices with USB-C in all the categories that are now regulated. This means it was pretty easy to find devices like that if you really valued USB-C. Of course, if you wanted an iPhone but you liked USB-C, you would have had a problem. A problem that is much less worse than blocking progress. > Which is why the law can…

You might have a point. But, at the same time, AFAIK the only manufacturer that complained about USB-C (and, coincidentally, making the exact same argument as you're making) was Apple. And they definitely weren't interested in making the lightning connector an industry standard. Quite the opposite.

It doesn't really matter to me, because even if that's true for Apple (or it was at the time), it still means other companies can't test new technologies. They might as well be OK with that, but it still means that consumers won't get new standards. The first attempt at enforcing such a standard in the EU was made with mini-USB.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/memo_1...

It failed to become a regulation (fortunately), but I have no reason to believe USB-C is different, and no better standards would have been tried by companies if they were allowed to do so.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#157

Post by graemep »

tokai wrote: post #33
blfr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know they've been pushing for this when they're pretty reasonable and independent on other issues. How come?

I'm completely serious here; the former minister of law was beaten as a child and it informs his whole world view.

That can make a lot of sense. People do tent to put too much value on their own experience - there is a tendency to think your experiences are normal.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#158

Post by dgellow »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #130
cyanydeez wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

alright, but the important query is: this isn't happening in a vacuum, there's a lot of various forces. Lets say the primary force we need to prevent is russian influence campaigns that back and push far right nationalists who will destabilize democracy. Is that a sufficient reason for controls? It's always curious what people think about the actual content that's typically pushing these things.

You know EU has mostly gone after and unpersoned leftoids (and accusing them of working for russia), despite the rightoid wringing of hands? Look up e. g. Hüseyin Doğru.

https://data.europa.eu/apps/eusanctionstracker/subjects/1756...

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#159

Post by onraglanroad »

kmeisthax wrote: post #86
jltsiren wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time, when "the EU" is doing something bad, it's actually the national governments wearing a different hat. The Parliament is pretty reasonable on the average, while the national policicians in the Council take advantage of the ignorance of the public. They can pursue their favorite policies without consequences, as the EU gets all the blame.

As an extension of this, look at the European Commission's response to the Stop Destroying Videogames[0] petition. It's utter dogshit. The petition is a pure consumer protection issue and the Commission's response is "but we can't touch IP rights". Bullshit, you guys made IP rights, you wrote all the rules surrounding them, and Donald Trump is about to drown you with them because America's tech oligarchs figured out…

Abolishing the European Commission would be seen as an attack on the individual countries' sovereignty as it would give more power to the EU.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#160

Post by gherkinnn »

consensus1 wrote: post #143
gherkinnn wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rubbish. Fighting fascism by implementing totalitarian tools is a ludicrous idea. Start with dismantling the means by which the information cancer spreads. No more targeted ads, no more data harvesting. Increase privacy. Everybody knows about the influence of Russian bots on the net and yet precisely fuck all is being done about it.

And how do you do that? Either you have some government agency able to quickly decide what is a "Russian bot" and censor it or you have a public deliberation process where evidence is required to be presented before censoring the Russian bot. The former is guaranteed to be abused to censor things that the government doesn't like and the latter is too slow to be of any effect.

Start by dismantling the mechanisms behind surveillance advertising.
Post reply on HN