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EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#41

Post by microtonal »

elric wrote: post #8

This is going to further increase anti-EU sentiment. This is unacceptable behaviour, but no politician is ever going to experience any negative consequences over this because they're so very far removed from the democratic process.

Still, this is mostly pushed by particular countries (e.g. Denmark), the commission and aggressively pursued by lobbyist. The most democratic body in the EU (the EP) has so far always rejected Chat Control.

Without the EU, this would have been introduced in some member countries much earlier (see also UK).

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#42

Post by dgellow »

dminik wrote: post #14
microgpt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Website operators hate these cookies popups because they make their website more annoying and make me more likely to press the back button and click on a different website. As it should be. This incentivizes them to stop tracking me.

Why then do they make the most annoying, user-hostile dark pattern cookie banners they can come up with? No, website operators hate that they have to either stop spamming thousands of tracker scripts or put up a banner. They found out that they can offload blame on the EU instead and so have chosen to make the web as annoying as possible.

Most of them don’t care and just integrate whatever is the most common cookie banner widget because their legal team asked them to

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#43

Post by elric »

microtonal wrote: post #41
elric wrote: post #8

This is going to further increase anti-EU sentiment. This is unacceptable behaviour, but no politician is ever going to experience any negative consequences over this because they're so very far removed from the democratic process.

Still, this is mostly pushed by particular countries (e.g. Denmark), the commission and aggressively pursued by lobbyist. The most democratic body in the EU (the EP) has so far always rejected Chat Control. Without the EU, this would have been introduced in some member countries much earlier (see also UK).

Yes, EP has rejected it, and now the president of the EP is ignoring that outcome.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#44

Post by microtonal »

sph wrote: post #22
blfr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know they've been pushing for this when they're pretty reasonable and independent on other issues. How come?

I don't want to enter into conspiracy territory, but it seems that there's a big insistence from whomever is behind pushing for this to pass at any cost. First it was Denmark, now the EU parliament president, a Maltese. What's for certain is that those that stand to benefit massively are governments and politicians themselves. And no, it's certainly not that bullshit astroturfed story that has been going around, of M…

How would members of the EP benefit from Chat Control?

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#45

Post by ajsnigrutin »

elric wrote: post #8

This is going to further increase anti-EU sentiment. This is unacceptable behaviour, but no politician is ever going to experience any negative consequences over this because they're so very far removed from the democratic process.

> This is going to further increase anti-EU sentiment.

Rightfully so.

Except for no-roaming-charges within EU, most people can't name one good regulation that came from EU and couldn't be handled individually by their own country in the last few decades. The latest example is 3eur customs tax per every item bought from china, even if it's a 1eur phone case (1eur + 3eur customs + 22% vat on both.... what's the added value of custom tax? who knows, but you pay it anyway). Add all the money wasting, horrible behaviour of politicians in charge, overpaid MEPs for what they do... it's no wonder people hate everything EU related.

All sticks, no carrots.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#46

Post by tokai »

iamnothere wrote: post #25
blfr wrote: post #2

First, why does the EU leadership refuse to learn from falling behind the US economically and technologically, most starkly with AI recently, and their failures in regulating the Internet, most annoyingly the cookie law? And why aren't you, the EU citizen, more annoyed by it? I see a lot of pro-EU content on this site when they're terrible on both tech and entrepreneurship. Second, what's up with Denmmark pushing for…

Denmark’s recent reasonableness is somewhat of a historical aberration if you look at their history. The migrant crisis (and the failure of governments to address it) has stirred up some ugly things there.

What do you mean the migrant crisis stirred up things? The anti immigration position in danish politics has been a winning position since the mid 00's.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#47

Post by ajsnigrutin »

microtonal wrote: post #41
elric wrote: post #8

This is going to further increase anti-EU sentiment. This is unacceptable behaviour, but no politician is ever going to experience any negative consequences over this because they're so very far removed from the democratic process.

Still, this is mostly pushed by particular countries (e.g. Denmark), the commission and aggressively pursued by lobbyist. The most democratic body in the EU (the EP) has so far always rejected Chat Control. Without the EU, this would have been introduced in some member countries much earlier (see also UK).

It only has to pass once, and we have to scream about it every goddamn time try try. And they'll try and try again and again.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#48

Post by jltsiren »

elric wrote: post #8

This is going to further increase anti-EU sentiment. This is unacceptable behaviour, but no politician is ever going to experience any negative consequences over this because they're so very far removed from the democratic process.

Most of the time, when "the EU" is doing something bad, it's actually the national governments wearing a different hat. The Parliament is pretty reasonable on the average, while the national policicians in the Council take advantage of the ignorance of the public. They can pursue their favorite policies without consequences, as the EU gets all the blame.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#49

Post by sharperguy »

aquir wrote: post #40

What's to point of all this? Everyone will use Signal or some other E2E encrypted messenger, this is just bone tossing. Useless politicans spending time on useless things.

They are talking about mandatory on-device scanning. E2E doesn't solve this.

Re: EU to legislate about Chat Control behind closed doors

#50

Post by m4nu3l »

9dev wrote: post #38
m4nu3l wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The education system has failed in the EU, but in a different way than it has in the US. I realised this when people thought mandating the USB-C connections was a good idea because "it is the best standard". I didn't think the mandated connector was a huge deal per se, but it made it clear to me that there is a flawed thought process behind EU regulations. And this is a big deal. Many things are not really understood…

Of all things to criticise, you pick out the one ruling that eventually lead to a consolidation of chargers? Really? I haven't ever met a single person who wasn't grateful of being able to have one cable for all their devices.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. A short-term view of the world, progress and technology.

All my devices supported USB-C before the EU regulation. But if I wanted to buy a device with a new type of connector, I should have been able to. This is how the USB-C came to be and how any new standard in hardware happens. New technologies are made and just sold, and if they are proven to be superior to others in the market, they often become standards.

The USB-C standard is not the best standard that can exist from now to the end of the universe, but if this discovery process is blocked, we will be stuck with it forever, which, of course, will also constrain the design and engineering of devices in other ways.

It's the same fundamental flawed thought process that has made the EU reliant on the US for a lot of services.

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