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Ask HN: Is there a bad employers (who have a records of not paying) list?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a bad employers (who have a records of not paying) list?

#21

Post by toss1 »

tux3 wrote: post #16
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #10

An unethical company is likely would consider a lawsuit to put such private site out of business. A collection of unethical companies would be an exponentially higher risk to such site.

Sounds like a Streissand effect waiting to happen. Besides, IANAL, but I'm sure plenty of people here could find a lawyer to file for an easy anti-SLAPP defense. Factual statements about bad employers are very much free speech. Judges aren't particularly fond of frivolous lawsuits. There are already mechanisms in place to quickly throw those away without wasting everyone's time and money.

All true, but anyone putting up a site would need the bankroll to handle such a lawsuit through to winning, and then be able to collect on the SLAPP judgement (which the non-paying employer would likely have put up obstacles to collection). That's the big problem with lawsuits — you start out in a losing position just because of the cost to defend.

So a random individual without the bankroll to defend is likely vulnerable, and this is a libel suit, so unlike a copyright suit, you can't solve it just by taking it down. You posted the allegation, now you must defend it. Yes, the truth is an absolute defense against libel, but you still need to defend it that far (through pretrial motions, discovery, etc.). Even getting to file for a dismissal is likely to be $five-figures with a good attorney, and you NEED a good attny. OFC, if you have a good case, a good firm may take it on spec, but....

And of course, how do you know all the postings on your site are actually fully factual and not exaggerated in any way?

Because, any honest employer falsely accused would be rightly very pissed off.

Tough problem.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a bad employers (who have a records of not paying) list?

#22

Post by 01284a7e »

alex_young wrote: post #15

I worked for one such employer long ago that would “accidentally” bounce paychecks. This happened with such regularity that people would take their checks to said employer’s bank on payday and stand in line to cash them before heading to the office. You’d see a couple of coworkers in line to do this. Maintaining a list like this is probably not super useful. Any company that does this kind of stuff as a routine will…

"Any company that does this kind of stuff as a routine will not continue the routine of employing people for long."

"On contracts" is explicitly mentioned. While bouncing your W-2 employees' paychecks is a big no-no, there are plenty of organizations that stiff contractors for decades.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a bad employers (who have a records of not paying) list?

#23

Post by jmkd »

This is absolutely needed for media companies in London, some of whom may pay freelancers many months after invoicing and only if the freelancer repeatedly reminds them and escalates towards legal threats. When I ran such a company we made a point of paying people the same day they invoiced in order to stand out as being great to work with, it was the easiest win ever.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a bad employers (who have a records of not paying) list?

#24

Post by matsemann »

lokar wrote: post #20
hnfong wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, in most countries (especially the US), also a defamation problem.

In the US? How is it different than yelp? (Except for the extortion)

There's a difference between "I didn't like their salad" (opinion) and "they don't pay their bills" (a fact, that could be defamation if not true)

Re: Ask HN: Is there a bad employers (who have a records of not paying) list?

#25

Post by cyanydeez »

alex_young wrote: post #15

I worked for one such employer long ago that would “accidentally” bounce paychecks. This happened with such regularity that people would take their checks to said employer’s bank on payday and stand in line to cash them before heading to the office. You’d see a couple of coworkers in line to do this. Maintaining a list like this is probably not super useful. Any company that does this kind of stuff as a routine will…

>will not continue the routine of employing people for long

The secret is to do this under different corporate names, not that they go out of business literally, but in America and probably elsewhere, they just rebrand and restablish elsewhere.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a bad employers (who have a records of not paying) list?

#26

Post by tux3 »

fsckboy wrote: post #17
tux3 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a Streissand effect waiting to happen. Besides, IANAL, but I'm sure plenty of people here could find a lawyer to file for an easy anti-SLAPP defense. Factual statements about bad employers are very much free speech. Judges aren't particularly fond of frivolous lawsuits. There are already mechanisms in place to quickly throw those away without wasting everyone's time and money.

> Factual statements about bad employers and how is this hypothetical website you're hyping supposed to uncover the factuality of statements random people from the internet are posting?

Same way any other website with user-generated content deals with it. The website has broad immunity as a platform, but is expected to take down content that would be illegal when notified.

Random people on the Internet have been at it long enough that there is plenty of precedent to establish that you can safely host a platform. But then again, I am not a lawyer, I am not your lawyer, and for legal reasons this is not the legal definition of legal advice, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a bad employers (who have a records of not paying) list?

#27

Post by bluefirebrand »

eqmvii wrote: post #7

businesses absolutely love not paying for things. each other, contractors, etc. employees don’t realize how good they have it with payroll protections tbh. That’s how it should be of course!

This is why a public shitlist of non-paying employers might be useful

If companies start taking a reputation hit for not paying contractors in a timely fashion, they will correct the behavior eventually

Re: Ask HN: Is there a bad employers (who have a records of not paying) list?

#28

Post by f4c39012 »

eqmvii wrote: post #7

businesses absolutely love not paying for things. each other, contractors, etc. employees don’t realize how good they have it with payroll protections tbh. That’s how it should be of course!

In much the same way as some HR departments exist to protect the business from their employees, some Finance departments exist to not pay the bills (for as long as possible). They may of course do this because the business itself is not being paid

Re: Ask HN: Is there a bad employers (who have a records of not paying) list?

#30

Post by TZubiri »

As far as I understand it, yes, the corporate legal system is setup to precisely solve this problem.

Court cases are public, and non payment cases can be brought to courts, generally as breach of contract. So find the State the company is setup in, find the courts of the relevant jurisdictions, and see if they have any cases for non-payment.

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