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Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

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101–110 of 199 posts

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#101
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the justification given for the ban (provided in other sources) is that Polestar's software stack is made in China. The theoretical spooky thing is China forcing some "evil" software update that stops all the Polestars. The Volvo distinction is ... I mean maybe the Volvo software stack is in Europe or the US. Maybe it's also in China! I do not really subscribe to this philosophy but what's going on isn't a "Polestar…

I think there's a reasonable argument that modern cars are so full of cameras and other surveillance gear that there should be some rules about where this data is sent and how it's handled. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be that.

It could be that US would benefit from having a more generic GDPR law rather than individual enforcement.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#102
post #95

The entire article doesn't once stipulate that the grounds for banning a Chinese owned car is having telemetry that phones home to China. Maybe Volvo still does and it's a mystery why they can still sell here. Maybe Volvo doesn't and there is no story here. But if the car talks to China and gets updates from China, the US doesn't care if it's built here.

What does it even mean to "get updates from China"? Software these days is distributed and globalized in virtually every sense. Polestar is headquartered in Sweden and much of their software development is in the UK.

It means that Polestar's ultimate owner is a state-aligned Chinese conglomerate.

The devs, in the UK or not, will do what it tells them to do.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#103

Granted, it seems inconsistent to treat Volvo different from Polestar. It might be just, that Volvo will get the Axe in a separate process, it might be sheer incompetence of the US admin, or it might be a deliberate negotiation tactic. But what annoys me the most about the article is this constant praise of „China Speed“, Cost-Advantages and Love of the Free Market, as if not every single Chinese Automaker, including…

> But what annoys me the most about the article is this constant praise of „China Speed“, Cost-Advantages and Love of the Free Market, as if not every single Chinese Automaker, including its Suppliers down to the tiniest screw is a State owned entity, massively subsidized and in general part of a rigged market

Do you think other countries do not subsidize their own automakers? What about the US government bailing out the entire US auto-industry during the GFC? To this day the French state owns 15% of Renault-Nissan and has given this company many tax breaks for the last 30 years or so just to keep some of the production in France.

It's too easy to dunk on China when the rest of the world has been doing the same exact thing for god knows how long but nobody had a problem with that as long as the EU/US auto-makers were making money hand over fist. Now, that it is changing, all of sudden everyone is screaming that China is the devil when it basically follows the same exact playbook.

As for free market argument, it is arguably harder to compete as a Chinese company in China given the cut-throat competition happening now than in the west and contrary to most of the western governments who would be too scared to let Ford or Renault fail for example, the Chinese government is very happy to see that some of its auto companies are failing because it means that the remaining ones are performing much better and have to keep innovating to succeed.

That is why the Chinese automakers are steamrolling the competition at the moment, they give people what they want: innovative products at a fair price point.

As it's been said many times in the past, don't hate the player, hate the game.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#104
post #75

What makes a car ‘made in China’ (therefore over 100% tariffs) vs ‘assembled in the USA’ (therefore no tariffs)? The battery, engine and everything else is absolutely Chinese made. I don’t know how much assembly there is honestly but i feel the Geely, err i mean Polestar was a little close to that line. I will say the laws around this indicate just how ridiculous tariffs can be. There’s always some line to press up a…

the justification given for the ban (provided in other sources) is that Polestar's software stack is made in China. The theoretical spooky thing is China forcing some "evil" software update that stops all the Polestars. The Volvo distinction is ... I mean maybe the Volvo software stack is in Europe or the US. Maybe it's also in China! I do not really subscribe to this philosophy but what's going on isn't a "Polestar…

The not-so-theoretical spooky thing is that the car requires an account to operate, and all its activity ends up being linked to a very concrete person, in most of the cases, and that's being vaccumed by China.

It's a perfectly valid concern, obviously. However in the current context of a blatantly corrupted government this might be a squeeze for money or just something done out of spite.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#105
post #38

What makes a car ‘made in China’ (therefore over 100% tariffs) vs ‘assembled in the USA’ (therefore no tariffs)? The battery, engine and everything else is absolutely Chinese made. I don’t know how much assembly there is honestly but i feel the Geely, err i mean Polestar was a little close to that line. I will say the laws around this indicate just how ridiculous tariffs can be. There’s always some line to press up a…

Reminds me of this. There's a whole industry around reverse engineering tariff classifications to find ways to minimize all-in manufacturing cost. For example, let's say you sell air purifiers. Option 1 is to import an air purifier and pay the 25% tariff (or whatever the actual duty rate is) on air purifiers. Option 2 is to import a widget that gets classified as a fan (with 5% duty) and import a widget that gets cla…

Putting the parts in the same box, in the US, may cost more than the tariff for the whole thing being built in China or India.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#106
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an official announcement this is the case or are you just making excuses for this administration?

He's just saying the article does not even discuss this vital distinction, let alone bring evidence either way.

It also doesn't discuss if the polestar was made of asbestos or if it was dangerous to unicorn spawning habitat.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#107
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's just saying the article does not even discuss this vital distinction, let alone bring evidence either way.

It's impossible to prove the nonexistance and mentioning hearsay wouldn't be good. The onus is on the commentator to substantiate his claims of there being a rationale.

Well, that is not true. The 'nonexistance' part. All new car phone home, and that is somewhere on the world.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#108

The entire article doesn't once stipulate that the grounds for banning a Chinese owned car is having telemetry that phones home to China. Maybe Volvo still does and it's a mystery why they can still sell here. Maybe Volvo doesn't and there is no story here. But if the car talks to China and gets updates from China, the US doesn't care if it's built here.

This is a remarkable opinion.

If we have problems with consumer-hostile behaviour like tracking users, remotely disabling vehicles, or other things like that we should outlaw those behaviours in products used in the US.

We will never do that because Western auto manufacturers want to be able to behave badly in the same way Chinese manufacturers might and they have a firm grasp on the American governments leash.

'Its from China' is a dumb reason not to allow a product into the market. If there are specific features, standards, etc that should be followed, enforce those.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#109

It’s because the Polestar cars have a lot more electronic surveillance than the Volvo models, which have had only minor tweaks and have mostly not been updated for years.

Huh? Polestar and Volvo’s electric models share a very large part of their software stack, see [1]. I’ve seen forum posts talking about where the service centre accidentally loaded the Volvo software onto a Polestar. There is really quite a lot shared between the vehicles of these two companies.

[1] https://insideevs.com/news/774024/volvo-software-ex90-fixes/

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#110

Terrify me? Really? There are other, genuinely terrifying things happening right now: climate change, human rights violations, animal rights, the spread of totalitarianism… that’s terrifying.

Totalitarianism on the rise in the global hegemon doesn't terrify you?
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