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AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

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111–120 of 194 posts

Re: AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

#111
post #83

I wonder if our common expectation that true theories somehow had to be beautiful and elegant is going to survive the coming century. What if "real" nature phenomenon were actually best described by horrible mess of impossible equations, that only machines could actually manipulate and reason about ? That would be really sad..

The "common expectation" I think, misses the point. The idea isn't that fundamental theories are simple or elegant (quantum physics equations are pretty darn ugly), it's that, given the choice between a more complicated and a more simple theory, generally the simplest one is the most accurate choice.

I don’t agree with that at all. Maybe for asinine things like human behavior but otherwise nature and physics don’t really follow that rubric.

Re: AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

#112
post #99
post #83

I wonder if our common expectation that true theories somehow had to be beautiful and elegant is going to survive the coming century. What if "real" nature phenomenon were actually best described by horrible mess of impossible equations, that only machines could actually manipulate and reason about ? That would be really sad..

> our common expectation I think you're going too far with this. Most people understand scientific theories to be an approximation. F=ma is approximately true, in the sense that it's only accurate within the newtonian regime and each of those terms includes so many asterisks that you will only ever measure it approximately. The latter is the jokes about the physicists "assuming a perfectly spherical cow." In fact tha…

> The latter is the jokes about the physicists "assuming a perfectly spherical cow."

Not to detract from your point at all, but I only ever heard this joke about mathematicians!

Re: AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

#113
post #59

"Humans couldn't even imagine" seems like overselling it, but I'm sure that machine learning algorithms can brute force their way to chip designs no one has tried before and that some of those might be useful to us. That seems like a pretty reasonable thing for a computer to do.

It's marketing bullshit. For one, it's like proving a negative; you can't prove to me that humans couldn't have imagined it. Second, humans have already imagined quite a lot of crazy stuff...

It really just means, irregular, unconventional, not in line with traditional designs.

Re: AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "common expectation" I think, misses the point. The idea isn't that fundamental theories are simple or elegant (quantum physics equations are pretty darn ugly), it's that, given the choice between a more complicated and a more simple theory, generally the simplest one is the most accurate choice.

I don’t agree with that at all. Maybe for asinine things like human behavior but otherwise nature and physics don’t really follow that rubric.

You should look into Solomonoff induction. Nature and physics, absolutely, tautologically, have to follow the "shortest explanation is more likely principle".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomonoff%27s_theory_of_induc...

Re: AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

#115
post #83

I wonder if our common expectation that true theories somehow had to be beautiful and elegant is going to survive the coming century. What if "real" nature phenomenon were actually best described by horrible mess of impossible equations, that only machines could actually manipulate and reason about ? That would be really sad..

That is very unlikely due to Solomonoff induction...

Re: AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "common expectation" I think, misses the point. The idea isn't that fundamental theories are simple or elegant (quantum physics equations are pretty darn ugly), it's that, given the choice between a more complicated and a more simple theory, generally the simplest one is the most accurate choice.

I don’t agree with that at all. Maybe for asinine things like human behavior but otherwise nature and physics don’t really follow that rubric.

Are you thinking of any specific examples? I don't disagree that complex things generally end up having complex explanations, but I'm admittedly drawing a blank trying to come up with things where the most complex explanation ended up being the correct one.

Re: AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

#117
post #83

I wonder if our common expectation that true theories somehow had to be beautiful and elegant is going to survive the coming century. What if "real" nature phenomenon were actually best described by horrible mess of impossible equations, that only machines could actually manipulate and reason about ? That would be really sad..

It would be really cool. We already know everything at the lowest levels is a probability cloud. There’s beauty and contentment in not really being able to nail anything down for eternity…

That's a result of the Copenhagen Interpretation. There are other interpretations of the math which don't rely on reality fundamentally being a probability cloud/wave/field.

Re: AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

#118
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was going to say much the same. I recall one story about a genetic algorithm to make an oscillator with the fewest possible components, and it successfully did so by surprising the humans with a single wire, i.e. an antenna picking up nearby stray RF.

That is my favorite part of GA. Gradient free optimization but it turns out making a good fitness function is hard and like 70% of the time it just exploits some assumptions or gap you have in your theories. Really reveals the problem in different ways that traditional ML.

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Re: AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

#119
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So where are the androids? If it's AGI, why is it used as a tool, waiting to be prompted or executed by humans? Where is Skynet? Military applications still rely on human operators.

You realize llms as a field is barely 5 years old? Give it at least another 5.

I doubt LLMs will give us full embodied intelligence that science fiction androids have. Maybe some other approach. But I suspect for the forseable future LLMs, robots and other AI methods will remain tools, not independent agents like Star Trek Data or Skynet.

Re: AI learns the “dark art” of RFIC design

#120
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was going to say much the same. I recall one story about a genetic algorithm to make an oscillator with the fewest possible components, and it successfully did so by surprising the humans with a single wire, i.e. an antenna picking up nearby stray RF.

That is my favorite part of GA. Gradient free optimization but it turns out making a good fitness function is hard and like 70% of the time it just exploits some assumptions or gap you have in your theories. Really reveals the problem in different ways that traditional ML.

As someone who does a lot of genetic programming (like, old-school, without AI/LLMs, etc), I can confirm that the fitness function is very difficult to get right, especially if you are trying to evolve programs that have "adversarial fitness" -- you'd need to maintain a hall-of-fame, and that just makes the runs take _much_ longer, because, chances are, your fitness function is the bottle-neck.

So, it is very hands-off, but also very expensive, and it is never clear if optimizing the fitness function is worth it, because the fitness function itself may be insufficiently or incorrectly specified.

However, I do think that people should try, even with just a whiteboard or a notebook, to design a fitness-function, for their problem, as if they were going to try to evolve it, because (1) it forces them to explicate their correctness constraints, and (2) they may discover that the program that they are trying to write _is equivalent_ to the fitness function.

I'll give you an example for point 2. Many years ago, I had to parse a gnarly language, and I chose to do it via Chomsky Grammars (that automatically build a tree based on the grammar-spec). Chomsky Grammars are cool, in that they are basically just a state-machine, but they are incredibly difficult to debug: when they work, they might work incorrectly (malformed tree), and when they fail, they give no reason for failure (because even with a trace, you are trying to figure out which backtrack should not have happened). So, out of desperation, I started to consider using genetic programming to just evolve a correct Chomsky Grammar. It became clear that there are only 2 possible fitness functions (1) a function that tests a hand-picked input against a hand-crafted tree-output (which is vulnerable to over-fitting), and (2) a function that is not (well, is much less) vulnerable to over-fitting, but is effectively a pre-existing, correct grammar that can produce those trees.

If you are in situation 2, then the genetic programming is not necessary, unless you are trying to create an optimized (or obfuscated) parser, and even then the optimization may be overfit to the test-inputs (even if they are generated test-inputs from the grammar itself). If you are in situation 1, then you are better off re-evaluating your approach (I abandoned the Chomsky Grammar notation, and invented one that is much easier to understand and debug, without losing any of the expressiveness -- it also happens to be slower, but fast-and-broken is worthless compared to not-so-fast-and-works-fine).

One place where genetic programming has been consistently awesome, is in parameter-search style problems (e.g. your genome is a long list of floats, representing weights and/or anti-weights, and you need to find out which weights give you more fitness (or less error)). I hear good things about variable-neighborhood-search, but have yet to try it.

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