Researchers have developed pixels that can emit and analyse light together
21–30 of 45 posts
Re: Researchers have developed pixels that can emit and analyse light together
#22Re: Researchers have developed pixels that can emit and analyse light together
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
A small camera can easily be covered up. You can't cover something that's embedded into the screen itself.
Can you be more precise about what scenario you are envisioning?
I think Cider9986's comment [1] on the OP covers it pretty well.
Re: Researchers have developed pixels that can emit and analyse light together
#24Glad I’m not the only one who sees the potential issues with these things
Re: Researchers have developed pixels that can emit and analyse light together
#25Love the technological aspect, hate the practical implications. Any part of any screen can be a camera. Good luck covering that with a post-it.
I wonder if there is any way to counter that. I can only imagine placing another matching camscreen face to face onto the source one and sending what it sees to a trusted camera-incapable display. But then there is a lot more practical questions and implications..
Polarizing filter? One-way mirror?
Re: Researchers have developed pixels that can emit and analyse light together
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you be more precise about what scenario you are envisioning?
But first, could you name two of the many utilitarian purposes?
Phone screens without notches, laptops which can have larger cameras for better video calls, VR gear with better eye tracking, digital mirrors and more. I'm sure there are less obvious applications.
Re: Researchers have developed pixels that can emit and analyse light together
#27>In the future, this could lead to the development of devices that function as camera and display at the same time. So literally a telescreen from 1984. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen Anyone that says they don't value privacy and they have nothing to hide is never willing to install a livestreaming camera in their bedroom and bathroom. The telescreen doesn't really add anything to what we have today, with c…
> Anyone that says they don't value privacy and they have nothing to hide is never willing to install a livestreaming camera in their bedroom and bathroom. This company is testing that theory by giving a TV away for free, with built-in second screen for ads, and a camera: https://www.telly.com/
The business model of low-cost consumer televisions has already flipped. Many models now sell well below cost with built-in monetization via selling user data, app product placement and streaming app rev share on subs. My Sam's Club has a pallet of this Vizio D-Series 24-inch D24f-J09 "Smart TV" for $88 (https://www.vizio.com/en/tv/d-series/D24f-J09). After retailer margin, IP licenses, packaging and shipping, Vizio is collecting less than $40 for the hardware. Less than a screenless, caseless Raspberry Pi 4.
I bought one to use as a secondary wall-mounted display for my custom home theater in the dedicated attached restroom (no need to pause the movie if someone needs to go to the restroom). It's on a controlled power outlet which turns it on via a motion sensor when anyone enters. So I just needed the TV to power up and display the video signal on the external HDMI input. This turns out to be impossible without heroic intervention because the TV is rife with dark patterns to prevent it being used solely to display external video sources (which earn them no revenue / provide no user data to sell).
To force buyers to put it online, they leverage an interlocking loop of requiring accepting the EULA/privacy policy and forcing an online update of those. You can get it to display external input without agreeing to the EULA or putting it online but this requires aborting the EULA screen with the remote control and navigating their built-in menus. Actually getting a firmware upgrade requires creating a WalMart account(!). Either way, it will not power up and simply display an external source (despite an explicit setting claiming to do so). It works as expected with all their internal app $ources but for external sources it will flash the source for a second then blank the screen (despite all power save, screen blanking being turned off). In all my testing, I discovered the TV also counts how many times it's been turned on. If it's been turned on ~10 times without have an internet connection sufficient to phone home, it will auto-boot to the "Configure Wifi" workflow screens - even if it's never been online. Once past all that, the owner still must interact via multiple IR inputs to get an external source to display. I finally forced it to remain offline and just power on and display an external input (like every 'dumb TV' ever made) by using a home automation IR dongle and emulating the remote button presses under script control.
The only reasons I persisted are A. The home theater was already under sophisticated home automation control for things which actually need control so I only needed to add another wireless IR emitter in the restroom, and B. I needed a small screen of no more than 24 inches, with an advanced enough video decoder chip to handle the range of HD, 4K, 24/25/30 & 60 fps (with drop-frame variants) and HDR10 being fed to the high-end laser projector in the main room from various live TV, streamers, UHD discs and PS5/XBox consoles. Obviously the TV's cheap screen doesn't have 4K pixels or HDR dynamic range but it does convert those signals into its low-end resolution, dynamic range and quality. Having tried half a dozen 20 and 24-inch TVs, this is the only one with an advanced enough decoder chip to do that (another indication how much Vizio values the post-sale monetization).
Note: if you have one of these and find this post via a search, don't bother trying to put it online or upgrading the firmware in the hope it'll behave better. After much experimentation, the only way to get offline external source display (and circumvent the "Wifi Config" screen every ~10 power-ons) is either manual or automated remote button presses. The only good news I have is, if you go to the trouble of 'de-eviling it', it's actually a surprisingly good display for the $88 price if you configure the color profile settings properly (I'm a video engineer).
Re: Researchers have developed pixels that can emit and analyse light together
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you be more precise about what scenario you are envisioning?
I think Cider9986's comment [1] on the OP covers it pretty well. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48700061
I don't understand why a photosensing pixel is meaningfully worse for privacy than the devices we already have. I mean, sure, you might not as easily be able to cover up your camera with tape, but even then a better solution which should be implemented anyway is a physical decoupling.
And as I stated above, I doubt this is meaningful for spying capabilities. Micro cameras are likely more suitable, for better or worse.
Re: Researchers have developed pixels that can emit and analyse light together
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
A small camera can easily be covered up. You can't cover something that's embedded into the screen itself.
Can you be more precise about what scenario you are envisioning?
You cannot cover the entire screen if the entire screen may act as a camera.
You can cover/disable the dedicated camera.
What do you mean by asking about a "scenario"?
Re: Researchers have developed pixels that can emit and analyse light together
#30>In the future, this could lead to the development of devices that function as camera and display at the same time. So literally a telescreen from 1984. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen Anyone that says they don't value privacy and they have nothing to hide is never willing to install a livestreaming camera in their bedroom and bathroom. The telescreen doesn't really add anything to what we have today, with c…
It's really absurd that we've boiled the frog until "ads in smart TVs UIs are normal" and now the goalpost was moved to "recording the consumer to show more ads"
The frog boiled itself. Consumers decided they want lower prices rather than privacy.
This is old news. The vast majority prefer free with ads over paid.