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Data centers trigger voter backlash

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Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#251

Post by ozim »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #244
ozim wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was living in a touristic area. Guess what was happening, local politicians were treating long term residents as trash in the face of big hotels/apartments who had loads of money. Fun part was that those apartments/hotels wouldn’t hire locals but rather people who would drive like 20-30 km away. Bad deal all way round for locals but of course local government people would pocket their share one way or the other if…

You live in a touristy area because you have a tourism-related job, right? Because where are the tourists supposed to stay if there's no hotels?

Not really. I was just born there and it wasn’t as touristy when I was a child. It blew up as touristy place when I was a teenager and in my twenties.

My parents had odd jobs, construction, chemical processing operations. There was some small scale industry running there as well but it went bust when people wanted fresh air for tourism. Even if the industry was really small scale for marketing sake local government got rid of all of it.

I also don’t live there anymore as I wrote „I was living in a touristy area”.

If I would stay there, there was no future for me there.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#252

Post by watwut »

miiiiiike wrote: post #216
williamdclt wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong that the position of many anti-datacenter people isn't entirely rational (in the sense of "backed by solid numbers"), but you're entirely missing the point of why they are angry. Consider this: - People are struggling more and more financially, with income that does not keep up with inflation - People are seeing inequality rise with the ultra-rich getting ultra-richer - People are seeing climate chan…

No, I know why they’re angry. Hell, I don’t even use gen AI, I still think it’s unreliable junk. However, most of the things that the people in my community are concerned about don’t apply to our region specifically. We’re actually in a position to benefit GREATLY. It’s useful to have that conversation.

What is the benefit? They provide no jobs and demand tax cuts.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#253

Post by mcv »

pseudalopex wrote: post #123
mcv wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kid, but Bezos said practically the same thing. That human need for water shouldn't hold AI back.

A satire site said Bezos said this.[1] [1] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bezos-water-consumption-ai...

Thank god. It's so hard to tell these days.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#255

Post by Loughla »

_doctor_love wrote: post #218
anthonypasq wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their proper…

Your argument makes sense until you have a horrible neighbor. You can see it in action in a state like Montana which to my knowledge prohibits housing covenants. Want to park 12 cars that are rusting in your front yard? Do it! Neighbors can't do anything about it. But that does have the effect of lowering property value and degrading the neighborhood.

There is a WILD difference between commercial properties coming in to residential areas and a neighbor with rusty cars.

I'll happily live next to rusty car guy. I would rather eat glass than have to live near a data center.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#256

Post by watwut »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #115
kentm wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is fair but I mean as long as people are agitating politically it seems like going after the data center is going after the wrong end of the equation, with similarly difficult odds of success. I don't see why you think that. Its something that: 1) These CEOs and people with power want 2) The populace has some degree of control over, since its local politics vs national. That makes it an attractive way to push…

This doesn't make sense. The reason Congress is difficult is because of those same powerful people. A world in which you can actually stop the buildout is a world in which lobbying Congress is much easier. You have control over who you vote for. Congress is not elected nationally. Sorry I just don't see how your points make sense. You might have better success of pushing the data centers off to your neighbor. But thi…

No. When congress creates pro-average-person lawe right wing captures supreme court rewrites them into recognisable.

And then the same court creates the "conservatives win you loose" set of made up bogus rules.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#257

Post by cobbzilla »

multjoy wrote: post #241
xp84 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody's shutting off those 150 homes to take their electricity, though. They have to buy it themselves. Lots of industrial things take tons of energy, from metal smelting to food production. Oh, and datacenters alone shouldn't even make electricity more expensive, because rates are regulated. The state regulators have to approve rate raises. Now, are the regulators a bunch of stooges captured by the utilities who al…

Metal and food are useful, though.

the irony of making an implied point that data centers aren’t useful, by using data centers.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#258

Post by micro2588 »

miiiiiike wrote: post #250
micro2588 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of nuclear generation is roughly fixed (minus the refurbishment of three mile) in that region. If you add additional large load to the grid and outbid other demand for that power you are just shifting the load you replaced to other sources, which in PJM region would be mostly gas (new or existing) and delaying the decommissioning of existing base load coal plants. Renewables in that region are unfortunatel…

I’m only talking about my local area. I’m not defending the Colossus sites. I don’t live near them.

It is much more than the Colossus sites, I would look at the capacity additions in the regional grids you are apart of and what is being funded to meet these increases in demand from data centers. The majority of it is natural gas generation and a sizeable but minority amount of battery storage. Just outbidding people for a relatively fixed amount of clean nuclear ignores the second order effects of adding large loads like these. What happens in your area does have larger impacts.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#259

Post by doom2 »

xvedejas wrote: post #45
cdrnsf wrote: post #14

Nothing this technology offers is, to me, worth the noise pollution or increase in water and electricity rates.

In a working economy, an increase in demand for electricity would be met with an increase in investment and capacity, and (at least in the long-term) would benefit all electricity buyers. I'm sure there are market failures going on here in many places but it's not necessarily the case that you and the companies be on opposing sides. There are positive-sum solutions to a lot of these problems, if people are willing to…

> In a working economy, an increase in demand for electricity would be met with an increase in investment and capacity, and (at least in the long-term) would benefit all electricity buyers.

The same should apply to memory and GPU manufacturers and yet I have seen no commitments from them to increase supply, so the end result is that consumer electronics are becoming ever more expensive compared to even just a year ago. That doesn't feel like a working economy to me.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#260

Post by coffeefirst »

logicchains wrote: post #139
thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

[flagged]

The next time someone calls me an asshole I’m going to blame Chinese propaganda. Surely it’s that and not my personality.
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