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Data centers trigger voter backlash

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Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#241

Post by multjoy »

xp84 wrote: post #180
spencerflem wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One refrigerator sized rack at a datacenter takes as much power as 150 homes, and they’re using it for technology that disempowers and annoys people. It’s pretty obviously offensive. All for rezoning golf courses too

Nobody's shutting off those 150 homes to take their electricity, though. They have to buy it themselves. Lots of industrial things take tons of energy, from metal smelting to food production. Oh, and datacenters alone shouldn't even make electricity more expensive, because rates are regulated. The state regulators have to approve rate raises. Now, are the regulators a bunch of stooges captured by the utilities who al…

Metal and food are useful, though.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#242

Post by multjoy »

miiiiiike wrote: post #224
yardie wrote: post #6

A few months ago the founders of the top AI companies walked into Capitol Hill. Tried to explain to a room full of elected representatives exactly how their technology was going to put almost half the working population into under/unemployment and they should consider UBI [0]. Then they went back to the airport, got on their corporate jets, and went home secure in the knowledge that they really showed them. That they…

I have zero faith in the current generation of gen AI. I think the claims are overblown and the odds of massive unemployment is near zero. Even if the AI bubble pops, the world isn’t going to need fewer data centers. I don’t care if a data center developer/speculator loses their shirt. The data center will stand long after they fold and someone will operate it. Build it here. Create the construction jobs. Collect the…

When the AI bubble pops. It will, and it will be glorious.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#243

Post by catapart »

miiiiiike wrote: post #235
catapart wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I got out of any of your comments is 'my psuedo-libertarian disposition has rotted my brain past the ability to understand why the problems with megastructure ghost towns are obvious to and unliked by normal people'

I lived in Northern Virginia, data center capital of the US. It’s far from a “megastructure ghost town”. It’s nice. You should visit. One stat that I read was that data centers comprised 3% of the total land in NOVA but accounted for almost 50% of property tax income. Where did you get libertarian from? I EXPLICITLY stated that I was against powering data centers with the souls of orphans. Twice. I like taxes. I like…

Maybe try reading the article to are the land sizes they are targeting for this installation.

Then check out the reason they are building these data centers: speculation for a hypothetical future where people can't afford compute hardware (due to this speculation) so they subscribe to a compute hub in their neighborhood, so that all compute is subscription based instead of owned.

I got the libertarianism (or what modern morons claim is libertarianism as cover for their hyper capitalist oligarchy) from the arguments you made, not from the things you claim. Same way it's diagnosed for anyone.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#244

Post by TurdF3rguson »

ozim wrote: post #227
thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

I was living in a touristic area. Guess what was happening, local politicians were treating long term residents as trash in the face of big hotels/apartments who had loads of money. Fun part was that those apartments/hotels wouldn’t hire locals but rather people who would drive like 20-30 km away. Bad deal all way round for locals but of course local government people would pocket their share one way or the other if…

You live in a touristy area because you have a tourism-related job, right?

Because where are the tourists supposed to stay if there's no hotels?

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#245

Post by miiiiiike »

qurren wrote: post #192
miiiiiike wrote: post #154

It’s reaching the point of absurdity in my area. People are bringing “All data centers are flammable” signs to city meetings. A plot of land that’s already zoned for the heaviest of industrial activities, is across the street from a dump, 3 miles from an airport, 16 miles from a nuclear generating station, and in a region with good climate, and no water crunch is a pretty good place for a data center. Facts don’t mat…

> It’s really hard to explain that centers aren’t bad and are actually far more efficient than the alternatives. This isn't about efficiency, power, water, or fire. AT ALL. Massive amounts of people have their jobs and livelihood threatened. The datacenters, which are enabling that, are being deployed in their neighborhoods while everyone in that neighborhood goes jobless. There is no plan of relief in the form of be…

I’ve noticed that people conflate being anti data center with being anti AI.

I don’t have any faith in the current crop of gen AI. I think it’s junk. I don’t think it’s replacing humans in drives. I can barely get it to refactor Sass code into a mixin.

Even if the AI bubble pops the world isn’t going to need fewer data centers.

If a speculator wants to create a bunch of construction jobs, build a site in a region with the power, water, climate to do so responsibly, and give us a bunch of money in property taxes. I’m for it.

I don’t care if his company folds and he loses his shirt. Someone will operate the data center.

They can’t get back the money they injected into the community during construction.

Eat while there’s food.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#246

Post by thewillowcat »

adamsb6 wrote: post #135
thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

I’m a voter who prefers we establish rules that be followed rather than encumber every project with a lengthy community dialogue.

These companies aren't coming in, buying property at market rates, and developing it with existing infrastructure under current zoning laws. They usually want tax breaks, major infrastructure changes, and other accommodations and guarantees. It's completely reasonable for people to want a dialog with their representatives before those kinds of arrangements are made with a company on their behalf. And it's entirely reasonable for them to vote out reps that are overly accommodating.

I live in an historic district. I had to attend a public meeting a couple years ago to get approval to change a lamp post. It is perfectly reasonable to ask tech companies to show up and defend massive projects to the public.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#247

Post by watwut »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #244
ozim wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was living in a touristic area. Guess what was happening, local politicians were treating long term residents as trash in the face of big hotels/apartments who had loads of money. Fun part was that those apartments/hotels wouldn’t hire locals but rather people who would drive like 20-30 km away. Bad deal all way round for locals but of course local government people would pocket their share one way or the other if…

You live in a touristy area because you have a tourism-related job, right? Because where are the tourists supposed to stay if there's no hotels?

Or, he did something else and mived away, vecause this sucked.

There is never shortage of hotels. They pop up is actual econony supports it. No reason to take bribes

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#248

Post by outside1234 »

anthonypasq wrote: post #167
thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their proper…

Are you from Texas? Because Texas is what you get with a policy like that.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#249

Post by 20after4 »

irishcoffee wrote: post #236
jyounker wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property, or believing they should have some say in the "character" of their neighborhood that involves non-public land just doesnt make any sense to me. Would you like me to buy the lot next to your house and set up a 3000W sound system pumping noise music 24 hours directly at your bedroom? Because that's what you're arguing for.

Generally the law concerning this is called: “disturbing the peace” and is not tolerated.

But the noise from a data center is exempt. And if their water use exhausts the local aquifer, too bad for the locals.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#250

Post by miiiiiike »

micro2588 wrote: post #238
miiiiiike wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t defend every data center everywhere. I’m talking about the proposed data center about 11 miles from my door. In my area we have a nuclear generating station 16 miles from that site. It sells 80-85% of all power generate wholesale to other markets. We have the power infrastructure here.

The amount of nuclear generation is roughly fixed (minus the refurbishment of three mile) in that region. If you add additional large load to the grid and outbid other demand for that power you are just shifting the load you replaced to other sources, which in PJM region would be mostly gas (new or existing) and delaying the decommissioning of existing base load coal plants. Renewables in that region are unfortunatel…

I’m only talking about my local area. I’m not defending the Colossus sites. I don’t live near them.
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