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Ultrasound imaging of the brain

alephneuro.com

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Re: Ultrasound imaging of the brain

#51

Post by k33n »

switchbak wrote: post #40
thaw13579 wrote: post #38

Cool work and proof of concept, and very excited to see where this goes. However, I do think there is enough exaggeration and missing information here that it warrants some critical appraisal. What's really missing is a comparison and validation with any existing medical imaging tech. Whole brain, contrast-free neurovascular imaging is essentially solved with MRI, why not run a scan and compare? Ultrasound is of cour…

"MRIs are actually widely available in most cities at reasonable cost" - I live in one of those first-world countries, and our citizens regularly wait many months if not over a year to get a single MRI scan. Yes, it's not just an issue of the MRI but the entire medical system, but the point still stands. Were there machines that were one or more orders of magnitude cheaper and simpler to run - I think we would see a…

Many months to a year for an MRI? Wow, in the USA, we can get MRI's the same day or at worst case, week. It's been that way for a decade or more.

Re: Ultrasound imaging of the brain

#52

Post by lostlogin »

k33n wrote: post #51
switchbak wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"MRIs are actually widely available in most cities at reasonable cost" - I live in one of those first-world countries, and our citizens regularly wait many months if not over a year to get a single MRI scan. Yes, it's not just an issue of the MRI but the entire medical system, but the point still stands. Were there machines that were one or more orders of magnitude cheaper and simpler to run - I think we would see a…

Many months to a year for an MRI? Wow, in the USA, we can get MRI's the same day or at worst case, week. It's been that way for a decade or more.

> Wow, in the USA, we can get MRI's the same day or at worst case, week.

You can. And the cost is higher than almost anywhere on earth.

You can get them quickly in most places with a publically funded healthcare system, it’s just that a priority patient is very very sick and you never want to be that person.

Re: Ultrasound imaging of the brain

#53

Post by thaw13579 »

scratcheee wrote: post #50
thaw13579 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree that's an issue, although more of an economic / public health policy issue than a technical one. There are low field MRI systems, such as the one made by Hyperfine that are, like you say, an order of magnitude cheaper and simpler to run. We should have these everywhere, IMO https://www.hyperfinemri.com/

MRIs are fundamentally expensive. Yes we can bring the price down a bit, and we can set more money aside for them, but they’ll always be limited by their price. Even if this technique is much worse (I can certainly believe it is) the price might allow uses that would never be practical with MRI even with the best financial support. For example, ultrasound might be viable for use in GPs or small medical facilities whi…

Yes totally, and ultrasound already does wonders in that regard. It's a good strategy to focus on the specific use cases that match the strengths of the tech. I think MRI will be useful in validating and mapping out those cases.

Re: Ultrasound imaging of the brain

#54

Post by [deleted] »

thaw13579 wrote: post #47
virissimo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MRIs are actually widely available in most cities at reasonable cost Typical wait time for an MRI in Canada is 2 months.

Yes, that is a economic & public health policy problem that really needs to be solved. We can look to Japan as example of what's possible, they have invested in nearly twice the number of scanners per capita of Canada, and they can get same-day MRIs for $50, roughly speaking.

[deleted]

Re: Ultrasound imaging of the brain

#55

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

pedalpete wrote: post #36
iamleppert wrote: post #29

Every few years one of these ultrasound companies comes around and promising to revolutionize medical imaging and nothing ever comes of it. Anyone remember https://www.openwater.health ? The same ideas are in a perpetual state of being reinvented and part of me thinks its just a hustle for the MIT Media Lab/Stanford Imaging grads to give them something to do. The tell is "super resolution", "brain computer interface"…

It doesn't work until it does. The same thing has been said about robotics, AI, space travel, etc. etc. I'm not saying this is the way, and I have significant questions of understanding thought based on reading brain activity, but I wouldn't put down the entire ultrasound field.

It doesn't work unless it does.

Until implies we're just waiting. Unless implies actual evidence, and - in medical procedures - some guarantee of safety.

SF6 plus ultrasound is used to open the blood brain barrier. So if you're pumping a lot of ultrasound into a brain and using a lot of SF6, there are already risks.

Re: Ultrasound imaging of the brain

#56

Post by [deleted] »

thaw13579 wrote: post #42
kyawzazaw wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most cities where?

Here are OECD and WHO reports on regional availability of MRI: https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/health-at-a-glance-2025... https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/indicators/indicator-detai... Africa, Central & South America are clearly underserved, perhaps a good opportunity for ultrasound and low-field MRI

[deleted]

Re: Ultrasound imaging of the brain

#57

Post by lostlogin »

thaw13579 wrote: post #47
virissimo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MRIs are actually widely available in most cities at reasonable cost Typical wait time for an MRI in Canada is 2 months.

Yes, that is a economic & public health policy problem that really needs to be solved. We can look to Japan as example of what's possible, they have invested in nearly twice the number of scanners per capita of Canada, and they can get same-day MRIs for $50, roughly speaking.

> they can get same-day MRIs for $50

I’d like to see a breakdown on how they do that. Staffing alone is a multiple of that.

Re: Ultrasound imaging of the brain

#59

Post by jmount »

scratcheee wrote: post #50
thaw13579 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree that's an issue, although more of an economic / public health policy issue than a technical one. There are low field MRI systems, such as the one made by Hyperfine that are, like you say, an order of magnitude cheaper and simpler to run. We should have these everywhere, IMO https://www.hyperfinemri.com/

MRIs are fundamentally expensive. Yes we can bring the price down a bit, and we can set more money aside for them, but they’ll always be limited by their price. Even if this technique is much worse (I can certainly believe it is) the price might allow uses that would never be practical with MRI even with the best financial support. For example, ultrasound might be viable for use in GPs or small medical facilities whi…

Why would they remain fundamentally expensive? It is a fixed machine (so eventually you recoup the investment) and running consumes nothing other than electricity and a paper gown. MRIs cost under $200 in Japan.

Re: Ultrasound imaging of the brain

#60

Post by xboxnolifes »

qgin wrote: post #9
w4yai wrote: post #5

It feels like ultrasound is solving everything for the last week.

There were a lot of people who declared very loudly last week during the Midjourney discourse that this was an impossible use of ultrasound.

What was impossible is the scale they claim to be targetting.
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