copyright is only as good as the enforcement. enforcement is exhausting and expensive.
Enforcement is well within the capabilities of major orgs (ie nintendo) who litigate internationally
Ask HN: Is "no source code was copied" still a sufficient copyright defense?
11–20 of 86 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is "no source code was copied" still a sufficient copyright defense?
#12There are no novel UIs, so copying UIs is okay, and necessary. As for source code, I'm a stickler for the license. The modern set of licenses cover any scenario I can think of, relatively fairly. AI is merely a tool, so the craftsman still owns the output. If the output violates a license, then the craftsman should be held to account.
Re: Ask HN: Is "no source code was copied" still a sufficient copyright defense?
#13"still"? It never was. If you copy a (copyrighted) UI in bulk, that's a copyright violation just like copying code in bulk. The legal metric is generally "sufficient height of creation", the actual interpretation depends on where you are.
I looked at those screen shots. The language is similar but it’s not verbatim. The is itself is just the usage of the same framework. Business logic can’t be copyrighted. Is it too close? I agree. Does it cross the legal test. I wouldn’t waste my money on a court battle.
Re: Ask HN: Is "no source code was copied" still a sufficient copyright defense?
#14I think there are couple things going on here
The replication/copying has always been there in one form or another. The bar has traditionally been higher for reputation and monetary risks.
Lately the legal bar is the one that going down, ease of replication makes it even more tempting and when big players are doing it at scale (bots) then it validates the strategy in one way or another.
If anything, there have to be downstream consequences of this with time, libraries to pollute the front end code for LLMs are most likely going to get popular and probably one way to make it harder for your IP to be replicated.
Re: Ask HN: Is "no source code was copied" still a sufficient copyright defense?
#15There are no novel UIs, so copying UIs is okay, and necessary. As for source code, I'm a stickler for the license. The modern set of licenses cover any scenario I can think of, relatively fairly. AI is merely a tool, so the craftsman still owns the output. If the output violates a license, then the craftsman should be held to account.
I’ve seen companies get sued and lose in court for copying UIs. So no, legally speaking, copying a UI is not something that companies ignore.
Re: Ask HN: Is "no source code was copied" still a sufficient copyright defense?
#16Copyright doesn't cover instructions like recipes, protocols, or APIs; those require patents.
Not looking at the source code has been used to make nuisance copyright lawsuits less likely (e.g. Phoenix and AMI implementations of IBM's BIOS) but it's still easy to prevail when a new work is created by rewriting some else's source code. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc.....)
Neither copyright nor patent cover a user interface (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Micros....), so that can legally be copied outright.
Re: Ask HN: Is "no source code was copied" still a sufficient copyright defense?
#17Copyright doesn't cover the results of code, nor the methods used in the code, techniques and algorithms aren't covered by copyright. Period. Copyright applies to 'the work'. If you don't copy the source code, it's not covered.
Re: Ask HN: Is "no source code was copied" still a sufficient copyright defense?
#18"still"? It never was. If you copy a (copyrighted) UI in bulk, that's a copyright violation just like copying code in bulk. The legal metric is generally "sufficient height of creation", the actual interpretation depends on where you are.
I looked at those screen shots. The language is similar but it’s not verbatim. The is itself is just the usage of the same framework. Business logic can’t be copyrighted. Is it too close? I agree. Does it cross the legal test. I wouldn’t waste my money on a court battle.
I wasn't talking about a specific case, and "UI" is more than a single page. To be specific, I'm referring to the sum of text (incl. translations), graphics and layout on the entire product/application/etc.
I agree the screenshots in the specific linked case - if that's all there is - are nowhere near enough.
Re: Ask HN: Is "no source code was copied" still a sufficient copyright defense?
#19"still"? It never was. If you copy a (copyrighted) UI in bulk, that's a copyright violation just like copying code in bulk. The legal metric is generally "sufficient height of creation", the actual interpretation depends on where you are.
It depends also what you mean with copy. The code has copyright but the rendered pixels don’t (other than if something like an image was created pixel by pixel). So if the code is different but the output looks the same it’s not copyright infringement (can still be trademark).
Re: Ask HN: Is "no source code was copied" still a sufficient copyright defense?
#20not a copyright issue
there may some other intellectual property remedy, or not, but it isn't copyright
hope that helps