It's called "friendly fraud":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fraud
Cute name, serious problem.
Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again
251–260 of 398 posts
Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again
#252I would have expected David Marcus (PayPal CEO) to chime in by now but apparently not. Counterparty risk is definitely a hard problem to solve but this situation seems easy to solve: if the buyer is complaining "not as described", there should need to be some sort of attempt to return the item (at seller's expense or split).
if the buyer is complaining "not as described", there should need to be some sort of attempt to return the item
Exactly. I'm extremely confused as to why this does not appear to have been brought up by any of the parties in the OP's case.
Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again
#253The Paypal dispute system is a joke. I had a simliar experience with a $300 laptop. The condition it came in was NOT as described. I tried to get the seller to refund, but he just ignored my messages. Unable to contact the seller, I opened a dispute case and I took photos, documented the entire thing, and even did the dispute message system (and the seller didn't respond once to my complaints within the dispute system).
After 3? weeks of no response, I clicked escalate button to firm up the dispute and push it to Paypal so they could decide. I thought I had a clear cut case -- photos, documentation, 21 days of seller not even trying to defend himself.
Seller, upon getting the final warning, finally replied with a message along the lines of "I offered a refund but buyer never contacted me" with no proof... and Paypal voted in his favor.
Fuck Paypal.
Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again
#254I tried to sell an expensive camera through eBay and after a month I gave up. Twice the auction completed and the person that won tried to scam me. I decided to go the Craigslist route and sold it in a few days to someone that I met at a local bank and we were both happy.
eBay were not very good, in my case, either. I spent hours on the phone. It was clear that the person that won the auction bid up to insure they won it. I'm pretty certain I had legit buyers at lower bids, and I would have been happy to sell at those bids. The reason I even tried a second time was that I didn't know about the ability to exclude certain buyers. For the second auction I tweaked all the knobs that massively restricted the auction to only the safest buyers. I don't know what happened, but someone with an account that was a few hours old won the auction. I think it was the same person that won it the first time. I called eBay again and they voided the auction after a few days.
It was a really horrible experience and I'll never use eBay to sell anything ever again.
Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no other explanation for getting rid of buyer reputation and providing no protection to sellers. I disagree. Back in the old days when I used to use eBay before they removed buyer feedback, it was considered unwise to ever leave a seller negative feedback because they might turn around and leave you negative feedback in retaliation. By removing buyer feedback, it allows buyers to leave unbiased seller feedba…
I always thought the right solution to this problem was to wait for both parties to submit feedback before revealing the feedback.
A bad seller (or buyer) could avoid negative feedback just by never leaving feedback, meaning the buyer (or seller) would never be able to publish theirs.
Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no other explanation for getting rid of buyer reputation and providing no protection to sellers. I disagree. Back in the old days when I used to use eBay before they removed buyer feedback, it was considered unwise to ever leave a seller negative feedback because they might turn around and leave you negative feedback in retaliation. By removing buyer feedback, it allows buyers to leave unbiased seller feedba…
I always thought the right solution to this problem was to wait for both parties to submit feedback before revealing the feedback.
Interesting idea, but it still wouldn't have helped in the case of the post-transaction chargeback, as described in the article. The scammer would likely still get a positive review (because the seller had been paid) only to discover the scam weeks after the fact.
Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again
#257The same thing happens to me the other day with a "item not as described" claim. Fortunately, the item was of much less value. Still pissed me off.
What was the item?
Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again
#258When the buyer made the chargeback, why isn't he forced to return the item? Isn't this the obvious step that is missing from the whole equation?
No he was not. He went straight to his credit card and they took his side. I had no chance of appealing because Paypal would not disclose the Credit Card issuer contact info to me so that I could contact them directly
He went straight to his credit card and they took his side.
Took his side as far as the chargeback, OK, I can see that. It's not very encouraging, but I can see it.
But took his side as far as keeping the item and getting his money back? That I don't see at all. How is that possible? And how would PayPal, and eBay for that matter, not expect a return?
Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always thought the right solution to this problem was to wait for both parties to submit feedback before revealing the feedback.
A bad seller (or buyer) could avoid negative feedback just by never leaving feedback, meaning the buyer (or seller) would never be able to publish theirs.
oDesk gets around this by having a time limit on when feedback can be left. If one party fails to enter feedback, then it posts the other's feedback anyway.
Parties can lobby to have the other person change the feedback, but only if they lobbied party wants to. Seems like a workable system to me and allows each to be honest without consequences like eBay's original system.
Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always thought the right solution to this problem was to wait for both parties to submit feedback before revealing the feedback.
A bad seller (or buyer) could avoid negative feedback just by never leaving feedback, meaning the buyer (or seller) would never be able to publish theirs.
Then you place a time limit on submitting feedback. Say you have 1 week-1 month. Still not perfect since it sounds like in the posted scam he didn't find out for over a month, but it might help in many cases.
E: Also just had another idea. You could have a way to edit your feedback after the original deadline in case of fraud. If you open up a dispute like the one posted then Ebay could review the edit's on a case-by-case basis.