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The AI backlash is only getting started

economist.com

181–190 of 272 posts

Re: The AI backlash is only getting started

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question should not be whether the technology replaces people by machines, it should be whether it provides a net benefit overall. That's just treating the very real, living people, who exist right now, and can read your words, as if they're already dead. > You could use this argument to say we should have never invented the printing press So, what displaced person will you swap your livelihood with? After all,…

Nowhere in my argument do I contend it may not affect myself. In fact I have basically already accepted its very likely I'll be replaced due to AI in the very near future. Thats just the unfortunate reality of things at the individual level. So yes, I do agree it sucks for lots of people living in the moment. I mention in some other comments that yes, AI "visionaries" make the level of replacement seem to be on a sca…

> I definitely have not "gotten mine" like the billionaires pushing AI.

Yet your whole comment is about them "not being all that", with no answer for the "taxi driver facing his family knowing he will be replaced by a machine fully" (emphasis mine).

Are you in this situation? Anywhere close? "Having accepted it's very likely" is a far off from that, unless that means "so I threw all my possessions into the dumpster and started living on the street, because it's a foregone conclusion".

> If for example billionaires (trillionaires now?) did actually spread the benefit and we overhauled the economic systems in much of the world for humanity it _might_ actually be a benefit. Its just hard to see this ever happening given history.

"Okay family, we all starve to death now, but just think: if it was different, it would be different!"

No, that doesn't work either.

> other inventions in hindsight have very clearly benefited humanity as a whole even with the unfortunate effects on the people of the time

But we know that the productivity gains of the last few decades haven't gone to "humanity", already. And that was even before the raw hatred of the vulnerable we see on display now.

How many inventions and tools simply improved life as people adopted them at their own pace, without it being this situation where people get herded into giving up all direct, deterministic access to the machinery they need to communicate, work, live, with the added benefits of cheap mass surveillance, cheap mass manipulation, and displacement of labor on a scale that will require the aforementioned to keep people in check?

This is not about other inventions, it's about what this actually is, not about penicillin or the plow.

Re: The AI backlash is only getting started

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent work responding to the argument put in front of you! You are so rational!

We're not much better than our ancestors. We'd like to think we are, because we're much more intelligent and have access to more information. But we really aren't. We're still driven by irrational sentiments and fears. We hate AI because it's new and feels icky, and will bring change and we don't like change. We would prefer the 2020s to be frozen in time forever and ever (although we're more than happy to benefit fr…

I don't hate AI lol. Maybe you should stop making arguments up in your head and, again, address the argument put in front of you.

It's incredibly lazy to group technologies by "were people afraid of this? Yes/No"

You can actually look a bit more closely at the specific technologies being discussed and what we know (now) and knew (then) about them.

Obviously nuclear energy and AI have at least as many differences as they have similarities.

If I'm opposed to drone-based atmospheric deployment of aerosolized anthrax, does that make this technology basically the same as nuclear energy, and therefore my concerns are stupid? Or are there relevant features of the technologies themselves that perhaps matter more than features of people's responses to those technologies?

> I don't need to hear about water or electricity or cognitive decline or any other made up stuff that sounds intellectual.

Again, you're making arguments up in your own head. I didn't talk about any of these things. But now that you mention cognitive decline...

Re: The AI backlash is only getting started

#183
post #146
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The untold promise of [tractors] is to replace labor. [...] Mere tools would never justify this kind of investment. How's this any different than say, tractors, or the mechanical loom? After all, agricultural employment went from 90% in the past to 1% today.

Well the Industrial Revolution was objectively a worse deal for the average worker. The average preindustrial peasant worked 8-12 hour days, but had Sundays off and at least 120 rest days and holidays. Depending on how good wages were at the time, they may have only had to work between 120 and 180 days per year. Compare that to the 70+ hour weeks workers were made to work all year in factories during the period immed…

No, it wasn't. And it wasn't because of government regulation. The land you require for preindustrial peasanting was, of course, tightly regulated and owned by ... well, not you. Read the whole "tragedy of the commons", especially the part about government deciding to just sell the whole thing to the highest bidder, which instead of fixing the problem, set off another wave of city migration.

If you stayed on the land you had to work, not quite like a slave, but close. And if you disagreed with this, the government had an army that convinced you ...

Factories offered a better alternative than that, and yes, mostly because the agricultural option was just not open, and just not worth it. They also offered a great density of people that made the labor movement possible in the first place.

Re: The AI backlash is only getting started

#184
post #64

People have been made to believe by very influential people (dario, sam, elon etc) that AI will replace them. As a result people are getting angry. Who did not see this coming? Why da f*#$ do they have to continue developing a technology which they think will replace droves of people by machines?? There is nothing sexy about it. There is nothing cool about it either. Imagine a taxi driver facing his family knowing he…

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Re: The AI backlash is only getting started

#185
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_...

AFAIK that was massively flawed because it doesn't account for time spent doing various household chores or maintenance tasks. If you spent 4 hours making a shirt, that wouldn't count towards "hours worked", but if you worked a 2 hour job to buy a shirt it would.

I mean, you only have to look at actual available salary and hours data to see that factory workers worked at least as long a day and longer than a farm day can even be, and in conditions that were unambiguously worse.

But even if this were not true it’s still not a working analogy for AI, which is going to eliminate employment, not just job roles. It’s the whole pitch for AGI.

Re: The AI backlash is only getting started

#187
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to what actually gets encoded into reality, it certainly is the most salient factor

That truly does speak to the problems we have in modern society. The biggest issue we face today is the incessant nature of economists to try to reshape reality to match economic theory, and not the other way around

I don't think this is a problem with economists. It's a problem with incentives and the systems we use to balance those incentives.

You have it totally backwards lol. You can remove the economists or even the word "economy" and nothing would change about actual reality.

Re: The AI backlash is only getting started

#188
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about ALL labor.

AI is not cutting my hair anytime soon. AI is not making my meals anytime soon. It's not organizing events, or doing anything in the real world. It's not doing my open heart surgery. Robots are still doing this in 2026 https://www.news.com.au/sport/carnage-at-start-of-robot-mara... We might have to get off the computer, and we might have to rethink how we organize the world economically, but there is still work to be…

I'm on board with what you're saying, but that's not what I'm going for. Right now, "Markets" need to believe that future nannies will be robots

Re: The AI backlash is only getting started

#189
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's also fine. However I am personally willing to side with the group which's arguments for the cause are environmental and societal impact over the one which's rebuttal to that is the fact we were wrong once 40 years ago. That's just me though.

We weren't wrong just once, 40 years ago. That's just one example, but the Luddites and doomers were wrong every time something new was invented. Check this out: https://x.com/PessimistsArc

This train of thought is hilariously rife with selection bias.

There is an infinitely long list of technologies that "Luddites and doomers" tried to block and were thankfully successful in doing so.

CFCs and ozone.

Leaded gasoline.

Thalidomide.

Offensive bioweapons.

I'm not claiming Luddites and doomers are always or usually right (they're often wrong), but your claim they were wrong every time is just total epistemological failure on your part.

Re: The AI backlash is only getting started

#190
post #119
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the average dirt farmer in the 1800 is going to be assuaged by the prospect of almost all farm work being mechanized, because he can be a "medical and health services manager" or "data scientist" instead? https://www.bls.gov/ooh/fastest-growing.htm

What's a dirt farmer?

You guessed it.
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