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Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

clinicaltrialsabundance.blog

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Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#61

Post by freediddy »

ralusek wrote: post #50
chimprich wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And they were rushed out This implies that corners were cut. They were not. They went through the full regulatory procedures. > many people still sit with the issues they caused Few medicines are entirely without side effects. The effects of the virus were in general far worse. Millions of lives were saved from the vaccines. > Not a win Apart from the millions of lives that were saved. > at the very least, they red…

> This implies that corners were cut. They were not. They went through the full regulatory procedures. That's absolutely not true. The standard for new vaccines, iirc, required a period of something on the order of 7 years. Time, in this case, is not a function of procedure that can be expedited in an emergency, but is actually an important element in and of itself. Many issues do not manifest immediately and actuall…

They also said that the spike proteins produced by the vaccine would be gone within a few days or weeks, and new studies show that they were detected multiple years afterwards. This was "guaranteed" to not happen. The trials were too short to pick this up and what does that actually mean for the health of people afterwards.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#62

Post by bryanlarsen »

freediddy wrote: post #60
bryanlarsen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID itself causes a significant increase in the risk of myocarditis, substantially higher than the vaccines. Symptoms similar but milder and less frequent is a general expectation of any vaccine, especially early forms of the vaccine. Early vaccines were deactivated or variant forms of the actual disease, and modern vaccines generally contain fragments of the actual disease.

No. Risk of myocarditis for males under 40 after the 2nd dose of Moderna was at >4X higher than the risk of myocarditis. This is indisputable. There is a clear signal that the vaccines caused injury that weren't detected until years after the "trials". https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/epdf/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA....

If it was detected, would it or should it have changed anything? On the one hand we have a disease causing millions of deaths, on the other hand we have this rare risk.

No trial can detect rare long term risk. It can only bound that risk. And we shouldn't ask for anything more. Everything is risky, but the risk bounds are acceptable.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#63

Post by chimprich »

freediddy wrote: post #60
bryanlarsen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID itself causes a significant increase in the risk of myocarditis, substantially higher than the vaccines. Symptoms similar but milder and less frequent is a general expectation of any vaccine, especially early forms of the vaccine. Early vaccines were deactivated or variant forms of the actual disease, and modern vaccines generally contain fragments of the actual disease.

No. Risk of myocarditis for males under 40 after the 2nd dose of Moderna was at >4X higher than the risk of myocarditis. This is indisputable. There is a clear signal that the vaccines caused injury that weren't detected until years after the "trials". https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/epdf/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA....

"Indisputable". Actually, it is disputed.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10076766/

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#64

Post by johng »

freediddy wrote: post #35
johng wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or completely violated the law by deleting emails. Using personal emails on purpose to avoid FOIA requests. Then lying to Congress about it. Getting caught red handed in all of the above and still getting a golden parachute. Really sad to see, anyone that lies to Congress should be punished for it.

Why is this being downvoted? Everything said above has been proven true.

[flagged]

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#65

Post by freediddy »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #62
freediddy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Risk of myocarditis for males under 40 after the 2nd dose of Moderna was at >4X higher than the risk of myocarditis. This is indisputable. There is a clear signal that the vaccines caused injury that weren't detected until years after the "trials". https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/epdf/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA....

If it was detected, would it or should it have changed anything? On the one hand we have a disease causing millions of deaths, on the other hand we have this rare risk. No trial can detect rare long term risk. It can only bound that risk. And we shouldn't ask for anything more. Everything is risky, but the risk bounds are acceptable.

What are you talking about? This isn't talking about long term risk at all. This is within 28 days of the 2nd dose. That is well within the reach of a clinical trial. The clinical trial should have detected this, but it was rushed. Plain and simple.

The narrative was that everyone should be vaccinated. The data and science showed that not only did young people have an incredibly low, almost non-existent risk from COVID, there was a material risk to all young men from myocarditis from the vaccine.

The reason why there is so much distrust about the medical establishment and the media is because what they were telling us didn't make sense and it was obvious they were lying to us just to get us to take the vaccine. Why were they so desperate for us all to get the vaccine when science proved that it didn't work by end of 2021?

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#66

Post by WarmWash »

freediddy wrote: post #42
WarmWash wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incorrect though. It's not a matter of opinion that populations with higher vaccination rates saw fewer deaths and lower rates of hospitalization.

[flagged]

Are you aware that places with poor resources and low/no record keeping have all sorts of crazy statistics?

Obviously when doing analysis we wanted to compare solid data with solid data. Not some NGO worker asking the tribal medicine man how many COVID deaths they have had..."6 witchcraft deaths, 4 bad spirits, and 3 might have been coughing?".

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#67

Post by bulbar »

ralusek wrote: post #50
chimprich wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And they were rushed out This implies that corners were cut. They were not. They went through the full regulatory procedures. > many people still sit with the issues they caused Few medicines are entirely without side effects. The effects of the virus were in general far worse. Millions of lives were saved from the vaccines. > Not a win Apart from the millions of lives that were saved. > at the very least, they red…

> This implies that corners were cut. They were not. They went through the full regulatory procedures. That's absolutely not true. The standard for new vaccines, iirc, required a period of something on the order of 7 years. Time, in this case, is not a function of procedure that can be expedited in an emergency, but is actually an important element in and of itself. Many issues do not manifest immediately and actuall…

> That's absolutely not true. The standard for new vaccines, iirc, required a period of something on the order of 7 years.

In Europe, it can take years, but because of organizational reasons and economic incentives. The whole process was completed as far as possible, but companies when through the same steps as always.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#68

Post by bakies »

freediddy wrote: post #61
ralusek wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This implies that corners were cut. They were not. They went through the full regulatory procedures. That's absolutely not true. The standard for new vaccines, iirc, required a period of something on the order of 7 years. Time, in this case, is not a function of procedure that can be expedited in an emergency, but is actually an important element in and of itself. Many issues do not manifest immediately and actuall…

They also said that the spike proteins produced by the vaccine would be gone within a few days or weeks, and new studies show that they were detected multiple years afterwards. This was "guaranteed" to not happen. The trials were too short to pick this up and what does that actually mean for the health of people afterwards.

I don't believe this, do you have a source?

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#69

Post by WarmWash »

johng wrote: post #34
WarmWash wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incorrect though. It's not a matter of opinion that populations with higher vaccination rates saw fewer deaths and lower rates of hospitalization.

What is incorrect? This is what he said: "And they were rushed out, and many people still sit with the issues they caused. Not a win - at the very least, they reduced the confidence of average people in vaccines and gave credence to the anti-vaxxers. Well done." So, let's break that down. 1. Were they rushed out? I think we can all agree that yes, they were rushed out and sped up beyond what we had seen typically. 2.…

1. Moderna had a vaccine in January 2020. Its not 1950 anymore where development takes 10 years. Doing faux work to waste time to placate ludite observers who can only equate time to quality is dumb.

2. People have died because they were wearing a seatbelt, and people have lived because they weren't. Do you still buckle yours? Why does this logic make sense to you but "vaccine greatly reduces adverse outcomes in all populations" doesn't?

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#70

Post by bryanlarsen »

freediddy wrote: post #65
bryanlarsen wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was detected, would it or should it have changed anything? On the one hand we have a disease causing millions of deaths, on the other hand we have this rare risk. No trial can detect rare long term risk. It can only bound that risk. And we shouldn't ask for anything more. Everything is risky, but the risk bounds are acceptable.

What are you talking about? This isn't talking about long term risk at all. This is within 28 days of the 2nd dose. That is well within the reach of a clinical trial. The clinical trial should have detected this, but it was rushed. Plain and simple. The narrative was that everyone should be vaccinated. The data and science showed that not only did young people have an incredibly low, almost non-existent risk from COV…

> The narrative was that everyone should be vaccinated

And that's still true for everyone that lives in human society. The disease killed ~7 million people and would have killed far more without the vaccine. Almost all of the deaths were in the vulnerable, like is the case for most diseases. Vaccinating the entire population protects the vulnerable. The moral choice as one of the not-vulnerable is to either get vaccinated or be a hermit.

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